When I was younger and still hung out with friends .. yeah .. I got job more easily. However, with family now, free time is a thing of the past. Thus, no more hangout with friends. I also don't drink now so no more bar hopping or whatever ...too old .. lol It's really hard to juggle with work, family, and still have a "personal" life. Profession .. it's a pity to say this but I don't have one. I am trained in biomed eng but done work in mgnt consulting, fin, tax, pharm, biotech, healthcare, utilities, and it ... lol .. I am all over the place .. I don't like to stay at a com longer than 3 years .. at least I haven't found one that I would want to stay until retirement yet. VMWare .. your friend might be good but over a beer? that's not interview then .. easier to talk when you're relaxed. Formal interview for me was different ... Ex .. when I was interviewing for Barclay .. I was grilled by 4 managers all at once, then 3 coworkers, then the director, then a case study, then a game, then a second interview by HR and dep vp, then a final phone in before getting my offer letter .. WTF .. couldn't believe I went through that myself looking back now.... lol Relaxed? Not really .. stressful but young and carefree so no worry .. now .. old and worries .. lol
I didn't mean to compare by coworker's situation with yours, I was simply trying to demonstrate that these skills he used could be drawn and applied in any other scenario, like an interview for example. And I understand how difficult the interview process must have been for you. The stress of such a gruelling interview process must be intense. Not looking forward to it when it comes to my turn, when I apply for a managerial position lol. Also, what did you mean by you get jobs more easily when you hung out with friends? The job application process is still the same, whether or not you hang out with friends, or have family to take care, or otherwise.. If you've done it before, you have the ability to do it again. Perhaps you've done this already, but I generally analyse every interview I've gone for, whether they're successful or failed interviews, to see what I did right, what I need to improve, and how I can tweak my personality to give me a step up in the next interview process. Anyway, good luck. Try to keep your optimism high (I know it may be difficult in your situation), but that will translate directly into your facial/body/vocal expressions during the interview, which anyone can detect.
It is relaxing. if you take care of yourself and let th emoney work for you instead of you working for money it is. I know those nags are annoying. I can tell first hand experience. They probably mean well, or just like to nag..In any case, let them nag, and they'll stop eventually once they see(key word is see) everything will be all right.
Is looking young enough to get rejected for a job?? WTF ... I just got back from an interview and the moment the HR coordinator saw me, she said, I am a bit too young to handle this job. I asked her .. what do you mean too young? I have more than enough experience to qualify for this position. I was in my SUIT and GLASSES .. I didn't even shave because I was worry about being late this morning. Her response was that my appearance will be hard to manage the department of staff whom are in their 40s and 50s. Since when does management has to do with appearance .. do I need to look strict to be a good manager?? I can't help it if Asian look younger than their age .. WTF. After awhile, the hiring manager walked into the room and started asking questions. He was impressed by my experiences and what I have to offer; however, he is very concerned about the older staff whom may give me a difficult time. I asked him then why not promote within and he replied, none of the staff has management training or experience so he can't do so. Anyway, he told me to go home and wait .. Based on the interview, whether I'll get an offer or not, I won't bother accepting altogether. Looking young is not wrong .. is it??? Seriously, luck is not helping here .. two interviews right down horrible .. what's more on the next in I wonder .. @Dan - when I hung out with friends back then, I got job easier because I got job leads left and right .. no more now .. those friends moved, lost touch, or busy with their own family to gather like the younger years ...
Sorry the interviews didn't go to your liking. Though if I may make an observation , her mindset could have been that having a team lead who is younger than the team members he is leading may cause a conflict of ego among the team members against the young-looking team leader. I don't particularly blame her for that observation, because as HR, what she is most concerned about is your chemistry with the team you may be leading and vice-versa. You can have all the skills in the world, but if the chemistry is bad, the team won't function. It's like a game of hockey, say you have the 5 best hockey players in the world playing together, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll work. I'm sure you are aware of this already. However if I may suggest, she may also be testing the way you handle her first punch. She goes "You look a bit young for the job". Instead of taking it personally as your post suggest, turn it around against her. I would have gone with "Oh, why thank you! I get that a lot." or "I'll take that as a compliment! Many tell me I look younger than my age suggests!". This conveys several things: 1) Charm/wit/cool 2) Positivity and optimism 3) Will not take things personally and can remain calm when under pressure 4) A people's person, and thus, can generate chemistry within the team being managed She threw you a punch, and instead of dodging it, you took it straight on. Your appearance has nothing to do with the job at hand, and she knows it. It was a test that can't be measured in any other way. This happened to me quite a few times during many of my interviews, until I caught on that the problem wasn't them, it was me. I had all the skill-set that was required for the position at hand, but I was not chosen. It was my personality that was the issue. Good luck man, positive thinking!
Dan - Good observation and good advice. I would have to agree. I too experience the same scenario many times on both ends of the table. Us Asians do look younger than our age and it can help or hurt us in different situations. But I admire your self acknowledgement of your flaw and in turn changed it for the better. Not too many people can learn from their mistakes. Most of us will always blame others for their own failure. I applaud you for that! If only the 20+ staff I manage can do what you do, It would make my job so much easier......especially during year end reviews. Sigh.......
I'm currently looking around for a new job as well in a different city/province. Trying to get out to Vancouver. Looking for work is a pretty time consuming process. I've gone through 50+ iterations of my resume, rewritten my cover letter several times, and have applied to 20 or so different jobs. By next month I'd like to have that number up to around 100. In today's economy you're competing against so many people for any worthwhile job, and it takes a lot of persistence to get results. As futile as it seems, at least you're getting interviews, which is more than a lot of people. I somewhat agree with the sentiment already expressed in this thread about not selling yourself short... however you may have to compromise. Right now you're in one of the worst bargaining positions possible. Hiring managers can be like sharks, if you don't currently have a job and if you appear desperate at all, that is blood in the water to them. A 40% paycut might sound outrageous, but on the other hand you're not currently making any money at all. If you can get yourself into even a mediocre position with some temporary security, you can use that to leverage your own bargaining strength in applying for other jobs. Of all the articles I've read about unemployment, the most depressing is that employers don't want to hire someone who has been unemployed for longer than a few months. I'm not saying take a job flipping burgers. But, if for example you're going from a marketing manager to a marketing analyst, you can atleast park yourself there for a while as you consider your options. Anyway, this is just my own thoughts and might be the method I use to get established again once I move.
and in the end what can we learn from all of this kiddies? Like the ol' wise saying goes... "it's not what you know.. but who you know.."
@Dan .. having trained as a management consultant and as an exec in the past, I have worked along side with many folks from all walks of life. Chem between staff is something I can't explain to you .. work or don't .. I had managed two depts in the past where 80% of the staff being PhDs. Scientists/doc and management are two different things .. just because one is older or more educated doesn't mean one can be a good leader. Why I am pissed at the HR coordinator? She was implying that I fabricated my resume based solely on my look .. your experiences don't match your appearance ... I was highly offended .. Like I said earlier, I haven't met the staff yet so I don't know whether I'll get a long with them. Typically, at interview, especially in a team working setting, co-workers would be part of the interview process to ensure they too like this person and accept him/her before extending an offer. Seriously, young people in management is so typical these days .. look at Facebook .. in any working condition, there's mutual respect. I am not saying that I am an easy person to get along because I had terminated 11 people once shortly after I took over a job. You can't satisfy everyone .. every new management has a new way and style of handling work .. if one can't accept it or live up to it, then get out .. that's the reality. The fact that the hiring manager said that to me about my appearance yet didn't include the team in the interview made me wonder whether he has a problem leaving his post .. grew too close to the staff or whatever. I asked him specifically why he didn't promote within and he replied that no one qualify for it. With that said, these people just have to accept who's taking over .. changes are bound to happen regardless .. As of this evening, I just accepted a freelance consulting job for a start-up com. The pay is excellent but no benefits .. only sad thing about freelance work. I love freelance work though .. just like consulting without the stress.
I completely agree with everything you said, and since I don't have your level of experience, I really can't comment on it. Though there's one question I'd like to ask (I'm genuinely curious, as it may help me in my future career), given everything you said in this post, how would you convince someone of the truthfulness of your track record? You were in the scenario in which the employers thought you fabricated your CV. Now for the sake of argument the hiring company is, say, your Dream Company. How would one manoeuver out of this situation and still land the job? (A question for other current managers as well. I'm genuinely curious.) Anyway, I congratulate you on your consulting position. As I own a consulting company myself, the lack of benefits is a disadvantage, but the flexibility is great!
So relaxing now .. the two latest interviews went well but you just never know .. happened to me before .. thought I did well but ended up not getting the job; where as the one that I totally failed yet offered me the position. When it comes to job hunting, having the skills and abilities will not help without a bit of luck. Someone mentioned earlier that it's not what you know but who you know .. very true but as I become a more experienced professional .. I tend to back off from this. Twice that I had went over the people who'd helped me into the com and those weren't pretty sight .. trust me. For me .. not hard to prove my CV is real because most of it is regulatory work so they can simply look up my name in the gov offices .. for ex .. filing a FDA or SEC apps .. simply google my name and trace it back to the individual com. As to my character, I have good references .. I try to keep in touch with all my past employers .. especially the well known ones .. McKinsey and Deloitte.
Thx ya'll ... settled on an offer finally. Pretty cool one too I must say .. very different from my last job but amazingly, more $$ and less workload = less stress and more time with family (hopefully friends too). Will travel a bit before I start working in mid-July. Since Euro is out of the question .. thinking Hawaii, Guam, Montreal, or Australia .. any suggestion??
Sorry to hear, after quitting my previous job. I feel the strain. On the other hand, I am a student. Have you considered studying externally just to keep busy and possibly open up further opportunities? Need to do a lot of kiss ass through social networking lol
