OK I think this thread needs a break -bigsmile It's been some rather delightful discussions there... We shall do this again yeah... after I meet with my God Chao Gung. *Brings out the champagne* Time for a drink.
i laughed at the way that person said what they said, it has nothing to do with you or whatever your saying, i can assure you that my post dont revolve around you. sorry if that sounds rude, im tired
GOOD DAY!!! THE BATTLE BEGINS.... -devil I realize that some points were totally 'overlooked' in the midst of all the discussion with everyone popping up different questions, so I'll try to address ALL of them in my posts that i'll be making soon... so please bear with me... And try not to ask me anymore questions until I have completely addressed all the current ones first... -sweat your co-operation is much appreciated... -bigsmile
For the purpose of avoiding confusion, I shall address our Overselves here as the Human Overselves (or HO). For many, it is hard to grasp the concept of oneself being a mere puppet to one's Overself. It's a very tough task to give a clear description of what is the HO let alone give an answer on who created the HO.Because the scriptures never did explain who created the Human Overselves. To each of us, the HO itself is as complicated as "God" Himself. I believe you have done injustice to Dann there by the summarization of his words in your own. Now let's see again. "the overselves arent Gods themselves.." Now, bearing in mind that Dann is referring to the Human Overselves, he is certainly correct to say that they are not God. For God is the Great Overself. However; the HO IS the image of God to us. Because, we are now only in the 3rd plane of existence; and we have a long way to go to completely grasp the concept, let alone differentiate precisely what is our 'personal God' ie the Human Overself or God (The Great Overself) Himself. So when Dann said, "and im not too sure who did, but as for who created the Overselves, its like asking who created Gods, or Angels or whatnot..." you have to give him credit because he was being entirely honest here. You are asking us to tell you who created "God" in the sense that the HO is deemed our "personal God", bearing in mind we are all puppets. Can a puppet tell you for certain who created his Master? I won't try to mislead you here by giving you an entirely false but believable description of the HO because truth be told, the scriptures never gave a definite description of the HO and specify who created them. They merely 'informed' us of the existence of such HO. Which to me, is quite satisfying already considering the concept itself is too complicated to be grasped by the ordinary human mind who has no such occult abilities. I haven't even really comprehend what is the HO thoroughly, let alone try to find out who created them. On the the other hand, I would be rather skeptical if the scriptures have in fact written a set definition of what are the HO and who created them. We are not spiritually enlightened beings who are able to grasp the concept anyway. Because, if you look at it, to be able to answer the question "Who created the Human Overselves", one would have to be able to answer "Why" as well and understand the purpose of the creation. Even if you ask the question, "What is the purpose of creation of the Humans?" I doubt anyone can come up with a beyond reasonable doubt answer to that. Sri Ramana Maharshi wrote in Ch 17, Creation Theories and I quote: "Creation is explained scientifically or logically to one’s own satisfaction. But is there any finality about it? Such explanations are called krama-srishti [gradual creation]. On the other hand, drishti-srishti [simultaneous creation] is yugapat-srishti. Without the seer there are no objects seen. Find the seer and the creation is comprised in him. Why look outward and go on explaining the phenomena which are endless?" And that basically sums up what I have to say. So yes, to be truthfully honest, I don't know who created the HO. Sorry to disappoint you, 無得頂.
The planes of existence are also what you may term dimensions. There are nine planes; ie. nine dimensions. Now before we try to comprehend how the ninth plane is like, let us begin with the first plane, or rather one-dimensional world. I'll give you an illustration. Suppose we have a piece of paper and a pence; we draw on the paper a straight line, and let us imagine all the carbon from the pencil represents the people so that in effect, the straight line is a whole universe. There will be only TWO points for the people, one is straight ahead and the other is straight behind, they will be able to move backwards or forwards, and in no other way at all. Supposing that we could make a change in that line, then the one-dimensional people would think that a MIRACLE had occurred, or if they saw the point of our pencil jught lightly pressing on the paper, they would think that a UFO has appeared. Are you still with me? You, as a three-dimensional being, will have temporarily entered a one-dimensional world to rest the point of your pencil on the paper, and the one-dimensional being who saw that pencil point will be sure that a most unusual happening has occurred. Being one-dimensional, he would not be able to see you, but only that point of pencil in contact with the paper. Having some idea of what a one-dimensional world is, let us have a look at a 2-dimensional world. This will be a flat plane, and the people who live upon such a world will be necessarily flat geometrical figures. The world in which they exist will be to them, must the same as our world, except that if you draw pencil lines around them, they will be aware of these great walls preventing them from going beyond those encompassing lines, and they will probably decide that the lines they encounter must exist somwhere else, they will think of the 3rd dimension in much the same way as we think about the 4th dimension; in much the same way we have difficulty comprehending the 4th dimension. In fact, if anything stirs these 2-dimensional beings' consciousness of the existence of a 3rd dimensional world, they would think it's all rubbish, or 'religion'. A 2-dimensional being senses lines, they cannot be perceived by this person, because being a 2-dimensional person, he will not be able to look from above. To be able to understand a little more on the planes of existence; or rather the dimensions, one should read up on metaphysics. We live in a three-dimensional world, but the highest form of Truth can be perceived only when we go beyond a three-dimensional world. One has to go beyond Time and Space, for Time is relative. Time is merely a convention established by mankind to suit his own convenience. Supposing that you go to a dentist, to have your tooth extracted. When you are having aches and pains, time appears to stand still. It appears that you are in the dental chair for ever. Now, when you are enjoying yourself with your loved one, you will find that time flies. So Time is just a relative thing, it appears to drag or hasten abominably according to our mood. Back on topic of dimensions, suppose that there are some form of people who live only in a 2-dimensional world, that is, they live on a world on which there is length and breadth, but no depth. They are like shadows, they are thinner than the thinnest sheet of paper, but having no perception of depth, they can have no perception of space, because space is that which is beyond the sky, and to bring in the sky would be to bring in the third dimension. Thus, to them, space is inconceivable. A railroad track on the other hand, is similar to a one-dimensional world ---Length. This theory of dimensions will explain many things which otherwise must be considered as a mystery, example-> Teleportation, for eg. in which an object is moved from one room to another without any visible person doing the moving. It is simple because one merely has to think of oneself as a 2-dimensional being. If we, three-dimensionals had a series of boxes without any tops to them, the 2-dimensional person who could be in one of those boxes would be completely confined, completely enclosed, because not having any conception of height, they would not know that there was no roof above them. And so if we reached in through the open roof and moved sth from one box to another, it would seem to the 2-dimensional person to be an absolute miracle in which an object in one secured room was moved to naother secured room. In just the same way, we 3-dimensional people could have no conception of an opening which is quite clear in the 4th dimension, so that the person in the 4th dimension could reach down into a locked room (for the room would be locked in the 3-d only) and move that which he desired to move through what was an opening clear to 4-d people. So, having tried to explain a little on the theory of the planes of existence aka dimensions, I am sorry to say that no, it's not like the usual "Heaven" pictured vividly by the Christian religion in the Bible. And perhaps you'll be able to comprehend entirely of what are the nine planes one day when you have arrived at 'the top' ie the nineth plane/nineth dimensional world. There... Hope i have managed to address all of your queries.
-shock These are seriously huge postings! Can't keep it up with you guys but thumbs up for your patience and time to type them!
By the way, I have just come across a point in my readings which I would like to add to this particular question on why the human population is increasing... Earth is just one speck of dust amid billions of specks of dust. People are coming to Earth from other more nebulous planes of existence. Perhaps, a person comes from a two-dimensional world and comes to Earth as his first experience in a three-dimensional world, so he starts his round of existence to the three-dimensional world which we call Earth. And all the time, there are more and more people coming as Earth becomes more and more of a qualified school of hardship. Picture a school with an increasing popularity in its quality teachings; that would explain more pupils coming in to enrol. The purpose of Earth is to teach one what is hardship and how to endure it, and how to overcome it. People do not come to this Earth to enjoy, they come to learn so that all the information they learn can be passed on to the Human Overselves. After this world, there is the astral plane, and from the astral plane, in the fullness of time, one is born upwards to different planes of existence/dimensional-worlds until at last, the fully evolved entity merges with the specific Human Overself controlling it. That is how the Human Overself grows. If having grown quite a lot, the Human Overself decides that there is much more to learn, then fresh 'puppets' are put down on some world, and the whole process of cycles of life is started all over again, and each time when the 'puppets' have completed their cycles, they return purified to the Human Overself, which again, grows through it. So to answer your question directly "did God added more souls into the world" well, the answer is yes and no. Yes that more souls aka puppets are added into the world (which is one of the reason.. the second reason is that they may have come from the 2nd dimensional-world) and no, because they are not added by "God" aka the Great Overself. They are added by the Human Overselves.
I'd like to add on the subject of Human Overselves and the purpose of us as 'puppets'. Many of us may wonder, "What are we doing down here? When we leave here, what is our objective in the astral world?" Well basically the Human Overself cannot of itself, experience desire, suffering, pleasure, etc. as we know it on Earth, and so it is necessary for the HO to have some other method of gaining knowledge. People upon Earth are just extensions of the HO which can gain knowledge. When the HO has sufficient knowledge, when the HO is so advanced that no more knowledge on the Earth cycle is desired, then it calls home all the puppets which are humans, and they all merge again into the HO, they become united in "Oneness", that is the ULTIMATE form of existence because although it seems to be just one entity, each part of the entity lives in rapport with the other part. Some people believed they have 'soul mates' or 'twin souls' on this Earth. Well, it is impossible for the twin souls to get together, but when they return to the HO, they are reunited to form a perfect whole, and they live in a state of very great bliss; similar to what we term as the feeling of "Heaven". The difference is that it is NOT permanent. The great bliss is there until it occurs to the HO that perhaps, there is yet a higher form of knowledge which could be investigated. And then the HO again sends out puppets, not on the Earth plane this time, but on some super super place, and the whole cycle is repeated. The puppets gather knowledge throughout a period which to us is EONS of time. Again, when sufficient experience or knowledge has been garnered, the HO or Alien Overself calls in the puppets once again, and they are again united in an even greater state of bliss.
Now, before I go any further, I should say that the Buddhists abide by this rule: "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you" So you see how ironic it is that you claim that phrase from Jesus' reply, "treat others as you would treat yourself" is specific enough and yet you said "our Buddhism's ideas" are really general when it IS the same??? Anyway, THAT is the main rule which we abide by and where I have quoted countless times in some of my posts, where you claimed as "specific enough". What I want to say today is to elaborate on the eightfold path which YOU claimed are very general... (Personally I think "treat others as you would treat yourself" is even more general than that... lol). When Gautama Buddha was asked whether he was God, Angel or Saint, he replied: "I am awake". It was these words uttered by the renunciate that served as catalyst to trans-form Prince Siddhartha to Tathagata Buddha. Literally, "Buddhism begins with the man who woke up". And if you want a technically occult explanation; it is when man has CONSCIOUSLY (man is one-tenth conscious, nine-tenth subconscious) made a connection with his Human Overself. In other words, Gautama Buddha resolved to journey out - rather, journey inward - in search of something everlasting and fulfilling. The profound search brought up some astonishingly simple home truths, which, the Prince realised, most people shy away from facing. Once he got enlightened, Gautama Buddha elaborated on the Four Noble Truths in a sermon (his first) at the deer park in Sarnath. He reasoned that the mundane life we lead is nothing but dukkha or suffering, as all things are impermanent, and they leave a trail of pain in their wake. First Noble Truth: Even what we perceive as pleasure and privilege are not sustainable. They cause more pain thereby, together with the pathological insecurity of losing those privileges and pleasures. This was the first of the four noble truths enumerated by the Buddha. The Second truth is that the cause of this pain is in us, in our desires or tanha. Our selfish desire to dominate, impose and separate - something out of tune with universal symphony - causes this dislocation. The Third truth points to the need to overcome this limiting, self-created delusion of ourselves, for only then would we open up to the vast expanse of universal life that lies outside of our petty selves. It stresses on the human potential to overcome this anguish. The Fourth Noble truth chalks out the Eightfold Path as a way out of this self-seeking cycle - a blueprint for a way of intentional living that will imbue our lives with meaning and purpose as opposed to the kind of random, unreflective lives most people lead. The Eightfold Path, which means- correct views correct aspirations correct speech correct conduct correct methods of livelihood correct effort correct thoughts correct contemplation And there is a further elaboration of each of the Eightfold Path in the Buddhism teachings. Mindfulness is what will help us to distinguish between the abiding elements of life and the trivia our mind is used to. Buddha's only prescription for mind-clutter is self-examination. Vivekananda regarded Buddha as the greatest seeker ever: "He never bowed down to anything - neither Veda nor caste, priest nor custom. He fearlessly reasoned as far as reason could take him. Such a fearless search for truth the world has never seen". In emphasising the impermanent character of all things, Buddha wished us to get rid of all delusions, myths and superstitions. To recount the story of his life is in itself a Call of the Overself: A reminder that one needs to separate the abiding principles of life from trivia. As the Buddha would say: "Be A Lamp Unto Yourself". Now, Apollon does the above seem 'general' compared to just by stating "treat others as you would treat yourself"??? (which in fact is what we abide by as well).
On a side note i do believe the native american tribes actually have very similar beliefs as buddhism... they also did believe in the Overselves, but they refer to them as the Overseers i believe.. they also believed in a Great Overseer just like buddhists and our Great Overself, as mentioned by b-rain.. they in fact do believe in spirits just the same as the tibetan buddhists.. there are many more similarities but ill have to look them up..
Many people on Earth are all members of a group. You may have, for example ten people who are together really complete one astral entity. On the Earth, we have these ten people, and perhaps 3, 4, 5 or 6 die; well the person who is in the astral does not become really 'complete' until all the group are united. It is very difficult explaining such a thing because it involves different dimensions which are not even known upon this Earth, but you have felt a remarkable affinity with a certain person, a person who, of course, is absolutely separate from you, you may have thought how compatible you were with the person, you may feel a sense of loss when that person goes away. Well, quite possibly that person is a member of 'your group' and when you die, you will be united together as one entity. Upon the Earth, all these people are like tentacles reaching out to get different sensations; different experiences, during that brief flickering of consciousness which comprises a lifetime upon Earth. Yet when all the members of that group; when all the tentacles are pulled in, one has in effect the experience of ten lifetimes in one. However, NOT everyone is a member of a group. Many people are individualists, not members of a group upon the Earth, they have come to do certain things alone, and they rise or fall by their own efforts on Earth. The poor souls often have a very bad time upon the Earth, and it doesn't necessarily mean they have immense kharmic debts because they get suffering, it could also mean they are doing special work and incurring a good kharama for a few lives to come. The reason why I did not bring this up is that it is very confusing and can hardly be grasped by a Buddhist, let alone a non-believer. And I believe that bold statement is incorrect. Not necessary the members of the group consist of members in your family. They can be anywhere and not necessarily be bornt into the same family; or else you will not find siblings hating each other's guts or parents not getting along well with their kids, etc.
Now I realize everyone is confused here with the point of having a Hall Of Memories in the first place and the point of reincarnation if basically, we don't remember anything and the mistakes we have committed in our past lives when we are rebornt. Before you protest further, hear me out first. Firstly, there is a very valid point why one is 'made to forget' one's past lives whilst on Earth. Let's say I was a beautiful Princess in my past life. And now, I am an ugly girl bornt into a poor family. How would I be expected to continue living without bitterness? "Damn, I was beautiful in the past!" or "I used to be able to afford all this. Now I have to suffer... It's so unfair!" It's simple, if you are made to recollect your past lives whilst in the present one; you would certainly not be humble and be able to continue your current life without any comparison to your previous ones. So the point of the Hall of Memories is this:- 1) It is where you, as a puppet soul (or your astral body) AND your Human Overself views all your past doings. You see the mistakes committed in the life just ended, and also your past mistakes. You view all your past lives just like you view a movie. It is when you shed some of your conceit, some of your illusions, and where you face up to the fact that although on Earth, you may have had loads of money, power, status, etc. but here it is quite different. You are just you. You, and your HO views what you have accomplished, and what you have failed to accomplish, and by assessing the successes or failures, you can decide on what has to be learned in the future. You can make a decision. That is, should you reincarnate right away? Or should you spend the next six hundred years in the astral? It all depends on one's purpose in the scale of evolution. Offtopic, but may I add that in the astral, there are also many 'jobs' that one can do. You can be a helper to those who are every second arriving from the Earth, you can do nursing, you can do healing, because many of those who arrive from the Earth are not aware of the reality of the astral world and they believe whatever their religions have taught them. No offence to Atheists, but I am just trying to illustrate a point of what happens when a person dies and they believe in whatever their religions taught them: If they are Atheists, they believe in nothing (cease to exist) and so they are enshrouded in a black, black fog, a fog that is sticky and confusing, and until they can acquire some sort of understanding, they cannot be helped much.. so you as the astral attendant, will follow them around and try to break away the fog. There is, may I add, also a sex life in the astral as well, but it is far, far better than anything you can experience on Earth, because one has such enhanced range of sensations. So anyway, back to topic of the HOM. 2) Imagine if you were in fact granted with a memory of all your past mistakes. Wouldn't that be too easy then? The Earth itself is supposed to be sitting for an examination. You are not allowed to cheat. If you recall your mistakes, you would just pick the other option. What's the purpose of the exams then? If one can just easily repick the other 'correct' option. 3) The purpose of the HOM is also for you to view the mistakes that you have made so you can make your necessary arrangements. And afterwards, you may also need much time to decide what you want to do. There comes a period of adjustment, a period when you can think over all that you have seen, think over all the mistakes that you have done, and think over what you are going to do about it. It's not a matter to be decided in minutes. So without the Hall of Memories, you certainly are not able to do this. And all the time, you have complete freedom of choice, freedom of decision, no one is going to force you to do anything. If you want to go back to do a bit of hell-raking on Earth, it is your choice. When deciding on where to be reincarnated into (ie place, type of family (rich/poor), circumstances like whether you should have any physical defects at birth, etc). It is like playing a game of chess. You lay out the pieces in the best possible openings. Some people may in fact choose to be bornt into many hardships, so they can learn faster and easier. Imagine if you are born as Paris Hilton, you would be a spoilt rich brat and not be able to understand the hardships endured by a physically retarded or poor person, etc. You may pick the easy life, but remember this, you are just going to be stuck in the cycle of rebirth again and again; and nothing comes out of it. You may also decide to sit around in the astral for a while. But soon you will get tired of doing nothing eventually; be it 600 years or 6,000 years (in astral time). Even if you were a lazy slob on Earth, you would soon tire of doing nothing in the atmosphere of the astral plane. Until at last, you decide you can't hang around any longer, you decide you cannot be a drop-out from school of Earth, you must go back, do your lessons properly and pass the examinations. Bear in mind, there is in fact, an exception. A special class of people who would have NO choice... Suicides. Suicides get sent back right to Earth, without any choice because they have terminated their lives before their actual life spans. So, often, when you see a baby bornt a few minutes dead, or even a few days; or a child living a few years, it's because these people are living out their unexpired term. These may be the people who committed suicide rather than perhaps face two or three months of agony when they were dying from incurable, inoperable cancer, etc.But he still has to come back to Earth and serve out all the time which he tried to short-circuit. 4) And finally, as I have highlighted, without the Hall of Memories and the chance of one recollecting their mistakes in past lives, they would be so clueless indeed, and certainly; they would not be so willing to return to Earth if their current just ended life has been a rather 'decent' one. One would say, "What the hell did I do wrong? I lived so nobly"... but in fact he may not have realized there are some certain tasks he was meant to accomplish/learn, and he would have realized it if he were to remember all his past lives as well.
I cannot tell you exactly how the human is being judged. And how to determine whether you have passed and being granted to evolve. But; if you are talking about ONE single mistake, it would have to be a very big, serious mistake. And so, yes you would have to be sent back to Earth to learn that. So basically, if you have learnt new lessons but made mistakes on older ones, you don't just get penalized like that; because all of your past lives are taken into account.. That's also one of the reasons why there is a Hall of Memories keeping a record of your past doings. And it is certainly not easy to get out of the cycle; or else many of us would have been Buddha already... According to Buddhism, as long as you adhere to the general rule of "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you" and lead a generally noble life, you are on the right Path. Of course you would also have to be 'spiritually awaken' in a sense that if in your last current life; you were aware of these spiritual issues and able to lead a noble life, and made a somehow conscious connection with your HO, just like Gautama Buddha did, the Dalai Lama, etc. then you'll be able to attain Nirvana. If you adhere to the rule "Do unto others what you have them do unto you" and also follow the Eightfold Path, then you are basically a 'perfect' person already... and no one said it's gonna be easy. So yeah, if you do make mistakes in the old lessons u have learnt in ur current life; they are taken into account as well. And may I add that we don't get judged on just ONE single lifetime, because that is IMPOSSIBLE. One has to be reborn time and again to even achieve a basically NOBLE life. So, what I am saying is, you would have to generally have led a decent life in at least a considerable amount of your past lives, and finally the last current life; when you have led a remarkably more noble life than all of your past lives. That's when you shall be granted Nirvana (and move on to the next plane/dimensional-world). For example; you have lived 1,000 lives. Of the 1,000... you have led 300 or so of not so noble ones, 200 of average nobly lives, and 499 noble lives and finally your last remarkably noble one. (This is just an example, I have no idea how many lifetimes are there in a human on this Earth and it certainly varies with each individual.)
I believe I addressed it in the following So yeah, a dead baby is not reviewed because he is just previously someone who committed suicide and sent back to live out the unexpired term, be it a few seconds or a few days. And then they are 'judged' on their previous life before they were rebornt as a baby and start making plans according to the mistakes they have committed.
You see, the whole point of Buddhism besides giving a guidance on how to live a rightful and noble life is to make one aware of how the world is. Not just to tell you what is morally right/wrong. There are so many things explained in the Buddhism teachings, for example like what Jun asked, what happens to a dead baby... All those are explained in Buddhism itself. How are we supposed to know about the nine planes, the Overself theory, the concept of reincarnation, the purpose of our lives here, our aim to attain Nirvana, basically lots more spiritual stuff if we don't have the Buddhism scriptures? To know all of these concepts and accept the existence of the HO and GO, we would need to understand Buddhism. Because besides leading a 'morally good' life, one would need to be 'spiritually enlightened' as well to attain Nirvana. And that knowledge can be found by studying Buddhism.
When a human dies, the human goes to the astral plane, and when an animal dies, it, too goes to an astral plane where it is met by its own kind, where there is perfect understanding, where there is perfect rapport between them. As in the case of humans, animals cannot be bothered by those with whom they are incompatible, but when a person who loves an animal dies and goes to the astral world, that person can be in contact with the loved animal, they can be together if there is absolute love between them. That's what I meant by the second quote. The first quote; "own astral worlds' I meant their own evolution; their own worlds, they do not proceed in the same way as us.. ie going through the same nine planes of existence like us. Also, I never mentioned that the humans are not able to travel to the astral zone which the animals are in.
i wonder how many billions of cows and pigs and chickens are in the astral plane... considering how much we eat. probably get pretty darn crowded
