Wow, you are a gutsy one... Taking on a Herculean feat here on PA... Bad pun, I know. Jesus Christ is the only one who said he was God? Since when? I know quite a few religions which has icons of the same caliber to rival Christianity's God and the Holy Trinity. And oh, ever since heaven and hell entered the usage of common English, Christianity no longer has EXCLUSIVE right to use them. It is not only Christianity which has the idea of a hell (not sure about heavens, but I have heard of a few promised land from other religions as well), so what gives? It is solely YOUR perception which lent the exclusivity to Christianity and Heaven and Hell and God. In reality, until people die and see for themselves, nobody can be certain what's going to happen (be it judgment before certain God or just consciousness dissipates into nothingness).
cant be bothered with the child thing anymore. why does scripture separate pastors and teachers? yet you say they are one and the same?, is scripture wrong and you right. who should i believe, you or scripture? and you say we only know what a 5 year old would know... hmmmm
just imagine of the other religions that exist on other planets they are probably debating the same thing with their own jesus and prophets.
Not surprising, as some christians turn a blind eye on other religions and dismissing them at first glance, thus ignorant of the fact that there are yet others who have much similarity with Jesus. I have also bashed him on how are others supposed to learn about God if they can't talk about it at all and he's yet to come up with a reply. Seems like he's flee'ed this thread -whistle A pity, as I have many questions still that I wanted to pose to him.
First off, I want to apologize for all the Christians out there. Because most of the time, Christians don't represent Christianity well. We're stubborn, can be mean and a whole bunch, just like any other people would be. We Christians aren't perfect but sinners still of the flesh. There are many things that I've gone through that I can relate to with people definitely, we are no different, but it is the fact that I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior that makes us different. Yes, he is the Son of God, but he is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit. To get into that conversation, you wouldn't be prepared for that. You really need to know what Christianity is and what doctrines come from it. That is something you need to talk to a Pastor, Biblical scholar, or even someone who has spend years actively involved in this faith about. Why is that? Because the questions you ask can only be answered by someone who has been enveloped for years in studies about this. I'm only at the beginning stage of this. Realizing that above all, my faith is most important to who I am and what it is I will be doing. Yes, Jesus Christ is God. He is the Son of God, but is God also alongside of the Father and the Holy Spirit. The 3-in-1, if you've ever heard of that. That's something I can't explain, but is a matter of faith and something you need to talk with much more knowledge. My encouragement to you all is to read the Bible in its entirety, and read it within the context, don't single out any verses to prove a point because that will backfire on you if you don't read within the context. I do believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, that through him I may know God the Father. John 14:6 " Jesus answered, 'I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' John 12:44-46 "Then Jesus cried out, 'When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.'" He is the mediator between God and man. It is because of Jesus that there can be an established relationship between God and man. You see God sent his Only Son to live perfectly by the Law, the 10 commandments, and then to die and rise again for us. We were not capable of this because of the relationship that was broken long ago by Adam. It is said in Theology that Jesus is the 2nd Adam. See, I don't want to jump into that also because you really need an understanding for this faith to go even further than what is seen and known at the surface level. So I will pray for you all. Jesus gave us, believers, the 10 commandments in two simple commandments. That is in Matthew 22:37-39 "'Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord with all your heart and all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Our "neighbors" are those who are fellow brother and sister Christians and those who aren't Christians but still our brother and sister. You see, Jesus was about love. Love for the sick, for homeless, for the poor, for the unclean. He had dinner with the tax collectors and whores. Even on the cross he asked God to forgive those who crucified him. He was Christ the King. He commanded us to "LOVE" and that my friends is not the typically love you all may know. If you know the Greek translation, which the New Testament was originally written in, "LOVE" translates to AGAPE, meaning an unconditionally Godly love. The only way God could ever love his people, his creation. AGAPE. Again, this is more Theology that you can only truly understand and embrace if you take the time study it and look through it carefully and thoroughly. Jesus loved his people and was willing to die for us all. It is through that that I understand that because Jesus' love his people was so great, that I ought to love my fellow brothers and sisters in spite of who they are and what they have done to me. It's not about doing "good works" for yourself or for other people, but it's about doing it for the Glory of God. Doing it because, yes, it is absolutely what Jesus would've done, have done, hence WWJD? Christianity is about LOVE. God loves everyone, for we are ALL His creation, BUT like I said before not everyone will be saved. Why? Because we're ignorant, selfish, and don't care most of the time. God loves his people still!!!! And his given us this opporunity to join him in paradise when this life is over. How? Through Jesus Christ. His death has cleared a path for us all, but knowing and proclaiming that he is your Lord and Savior, you will enter heaven. It's not because we do good works. But by grace and mercy. Jesus is God's grace and mercy to his people everywhere. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." My purpose in this life is to live a godly life, following the example of Jesus. To love and to give unconditionally. To spread this Good News, the Gospel. That though at times you may feel empty, Love is all around you. Christ has set you free from the bondage of sin. That his LOVE is greater than anything in this world. That the greatest treasures are not stored here on earth but in heaven. I've done my share of studying other religions, and Christianity is the only one that stands tall amongst them all. There is hope and there love. There is a real relationship that is established between you and God through Jesus Christ, if you work on it, and honestly work on it. Through prayer, Scripture, through the love you share with people. To follow Jesus you have to deny yourself. Mark 8:35-36 "For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and the gospel will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?" Let him rule your heart. I know most of the time what I want for myself isn't good. I say it's good but it really isn't and I end up wasting time. Live your life to its fullest and with purpose. Christianity provides that. I've done my share of looking into other religions, and it doesn't do that. They talk about peace, talk about self-enlightenment, about the goodness of my heart. None of these things can be achieved by man. My heart has been wicked in the past, many things I've done with regret but I'm thankful that as Christ my Savior my sins are forgiven. I'll still do bad things, untentionally, but his grace will sweep it away be it I am truly repentant though. Self-enlightenment is selfish put in a nice way. Do things to better yourself they say. No, in Christianity it is about serving others willing, not because you have to but because you are willing and you love that person to do so. Jesus, Son of God, was sent here to serve his people. God even said the angels provide for us. We, a sinful and corrupt people, have angels on our sides because of Jesus Christ. I just want to leave it at this. As a Christian, I know I've done many things wrong, but because of His love and grace, becaues they endure forever, and that is because of Jesus and only because of Jesus, that I am forgiven. A weight has been lifted off of me but still this life is a hard one, in my times of need and hardship, I will pray for guidance and trust in the Lord. In times of praise I will dance and sing. In times of morning I will mourn and lament. God is good and has been. He has shown us his mercy and love through Jesus. And through us Christians, he wants us to share this LOVE with you, so you may know who Jesus is and what he has done for us. Thank you for reading this. I hope some of you are inspired or moved to dive in deeper. God bless and Jesus loves you all.
Alongside of reading the Bible, New Testament and Old, read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. When he was 12 he became an atheist. It wasn't until he was in his 30s that he became a Christian once again. Check it out. It's a good book and will also help you understanding Christianity. Thanks.
On Deja-vu: It's the subconscious putting pieces of realities together and going haywire with memories (ever wonder why deja vu are mostly reported by people who are in distress or tired?) Disorder into order = shite? Really? I guess your teacher has a lot to say about snowflakes and mineral crystals which obviously composed order out of disorder. Or you actually can disprove the existence to snowflakes and mineral crystals? Not sure how you define Christians and good persons, if Protestant ethic is anything to go by, all world's resources are for human's taking. So let me know about that. Perfect? Which part of our body is perfect now? Just because it doesn't simultaneously break down doesn't mean it is perfect... And oh, it is like a bad case of hindsight: looking back, the current outcome is so totally preordained that it is inevitable and created. But if you considered it from the first point, you will (or probably won't but others will) see that there are chances that Earth is not the way it is and human and/or other species of life couldn't come into being from the inadequate environment. Somehow you have this Christian-centric notion, but what else can I expect? Christianity ABSORBS other religions, until someone can properly explain why in hell's name is Christmas, in the middle of winter, celebrated as the birthday of Jesus Christ, Christianity holds limited credibility to me. White lies or no, it is a lie and it's a express ticket to hell, Church. I can suggest you go read American Fascists to understand why Christianity is so totally lacking in credibility. I am debating whether I should proceed onward in replying to your less-than-eloquent posts... I shall see.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. A belief is what makes a person different. Your belief and mine differ, so that makes you different. But if you were to claim that because you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior that makes you special, then in the same way, I can tell you that there are others out there who have their own belief that makes them special. You can say you have faith in your God, and indeed, you will happily admit to your good and virtuous faith, but you don’t have certainty; faith implies that you cannot be fully certain. You appeal to scriptures for both evidence of your beliefs and authority, but this proves nothing, except that you personally choose to believe that your Bible has a sort of authority. In this same manner, many people all over the world have chosen to believe that their magical statues, idols, jewels, and scriptures had miraculous powers or were sources of spiritual authority. Your own sacred text does not stand out against those, except in your own opinion. You talk about Jesus serving his people willingly, yet on the other hand, you claim that those who do not accept him with grace would be punished and sent to Hell. How is that 'willingly'? On the surface, God seems like a caring and loving being, but is that really the case when He condemns everyone to Hell if they merely do not believe in Jesus? If God is indeed full of love, His love should be selfless and His compassion limitless. How does that reconciliate with the supposedly fact that there is this wicked nasty place that this so-called God of Love and compassion has created to send people to burn in for eternity? Often, I have heard Christians asking others to read out and find out more about their religion, but do you ever check out and read up on others' religions? Please do, as it will broaden your mind and open your heart. Right now, you think that Jesus is the only way, but how do you know that? The answer is simple, because you believe so. In the same way that there are others who believe in their own ways. So by condemning others, you are just showing disrespect and nothing else. Remember, to gain respect, you have to first give it.
I think telling people they will end up in hell or whatnot is rude beyond belief. Then they go around getting offended if I start talking about how absolutely lacking in credibility Christianity is. I know a few instances where people can be insensitive and self-righteous like that... I myself had played the part quite a few times, but heck, mere self-defense. If we ever venture into what is a "real" or "true" Christian, it's going to get ugly as apparently, those who follow the doctrine word by word are infinitesimally few in numbers (I don't see people going around stoning sinners, and the world is full of liars, white or otherwise) Again, it just ventures into the bad case of hindsight. Oh, he's this and that, he isn't a "true" Christian. Yet nobody knows for certain whether he wouldn't be admit to the hypothetical Heaven because of his deeds or wills. So Christianity is just "playing it safe" by deeming EVERYONE sinful and hope that those who converts would end up in Heaven somehow. But at the end of the day, I don't know credible people who claimed to have been to Heaven (or Hell) so I'll just see for my self when I take my last breath. You can try "American Fascists" and "Theocracy" if you ever feel like you can take some mild-worded dissection of organized religion without descending into senseless rage.
So you are implying that a person need not to do good but just "believe in Jesus" and he'll earn a ticket to Heaven? Wow, freebie deal, I am sure I need to post that on redflagdeals or something. /sarcasm And I see nothing wrong seeking a truthful discussion on a forum. Outside of the forum, I see more scientific proof that faith need not be necessary to live (and die). It may comfort you that you may end up in that hypothetical Heaven described by Christianity, but what if it is erroneous? A passage written centuries or millennia ago do not make it any more true. And oh, ever read the book 1984? Truth is such a flimsy perception, convenient and easy to alter. Well, the same Christian logic just applies anywhere right? If a Christian submit to every single detail of the doctrine, he is then a "true" Christian, otherwise he's just a fake one? Yeah, and everything is meant by God, so let's just stand around, do nothing and see if God will WILL a bus to run over every single person on the road. And of course, here's where free will comes in. Somehow even though God has given humans free will, Christians feel COMPELLED to convert others. If God is omnipotent and true as Christianity claim him to be, I am sure everyone can find God by their own means. The saviour complex of Christians, wanting to dig others out of the supposed misery of ignorance and sin, is really tiring and annoying when it happens that I would rather have my peace and end up in hell than to submit to some hypothetical make-believe God. If I actually end up in that hypothetical hell, as I am certain I will if what Christianity is true (non-believer goes to hell right?), I can spend my eternity contemplating about it. But not a second of my time on earth shall be wasted on being preached upon. Nobody need saving if he thinks that God is a make-believe character for social control. But yeah, the herd would not be very happy if it occurs to them that they alone was tricked into believing. Thus the notion of hypothetical Heaven, hypothetical Hell and the hypothetical God.
Oh just for the heck of it, I have been listening to Christmas songs lately, this Xmas mood is awesome... And I have even been humming or singing along to some of the songs... "jesus was born on this day"... etc etc, then a thought just entered into my mind, and I was thinking.. how many christians out there would actually not mind listening to a Buddhism song or chant? My point is, it seems that some Christians more often than not have a really close-minded attitude in regards to their religion. It's like a broken record that i have been hearing again and again ... nothing new with that notion. /sarcasm2 Sigh I don't think Christians can ever reconciliate the notion of free-will with that of the Christian God if they insist on the Hell damnation.
Yes, because all good attributes Christians exhibit is a work of God and all bad attributes the residual of the sinning self. What does that make of non-believer's good attributes? Still God's grace? So you are saying we need to be preached upon to understand anything about the Christian faith. Better yet, I am sure people will be much more "useful" if they convert and nod politely at preachings. I wonder, God somehow has a son... Hmm, curious thing you say there. He is his son (who is actually him in disguise) and the holy spirit roll into one, let's not talk about how absolutely nonsensical that is for a moment. If a Christian is to love God with all his heart and all his mind, I am sure he is too busy loving God to deal with his neighbours. At the moment, I only see Christianity loving to dominate people and create a totalitarian theocracy. And somehow that notion of tax collector implied to be as sinful as a whores are to be debated. I think I found a fault in your passage there... If it is AGAPE (or that Godly love) you said Jesus ask of his people, I am sure humans, who are obviously NOT God, is unable to do so. Sorry, can't do. I sometimes have that suspicious that theologists can't separate from religion because if they don't affiliate with a religion, they would starve to death since they know little about the real world. But that's just me. Yes, God loves his people if they love him back. New definition of unconditional love, as defined by God. You don't display your fluency in any religion besides Christianity. In fact, your fluency in Christianity is still kind of debatable to me. Not everyone need religion and faith to provide them with a purpose in life. Those who needs it? Good for them to have found such an awesome thing to live for, finally able to get some shut-eye at night. Who told you that peace, self-enlightenment and goodness of human nature cannot be achieve by man? Christianity? Awesome, so that they can provide you with some greater being, this hypothetical God, to rely on and seek purpose. Yet this tautology is a failure to those who are skeptical to Christianity since peace, self-enlightenment and goodness of human nature is achievable by man. I am sure self-enlightenment is such a sinful thing because everyone should do as the church and the magisterium do. Which is not not having an enlightenment at all. You need to have faith in Christianity to have guidance in life, I guess it does you good. But not everyone is as aimless and empty even without religion and faith. They can insist that it's still free will (although they would move mountains to stop you from exercising your free will)
You quote the scriptures with certainty and yet, even the origins of your sacred text is debatable. You urge others to read and dissect your sacred text, but yet when we do question the ambiguity in it, you tell us not to discuss of it if we do not believe in it. Pray then, how do we go about it? Believe blindly and then question later? So can you actually claim that you 'love' someone, a non-believer on one hand and then tell him to his face, "You are going to Hell" on his sick bed? Where is the so-called love? How on earth would you know you'd be repentant if you don't even know the bad things that you'd be committing unintentionally??? Do things to better yourself, yes and not to condemn others. Believe in Christianity to be a better person, not because you want to be deemed superior. Have faith because you believe, not because it promises you Heaven and redemption. How convenient. Just cause of your belief in Jesus, all your 'sins' are wiped off. I am really curious, which religion(s) have you studied apart from Christianity and to what depth? Are you able to actually discuss in-depth on other religions as well??? There is hope and there is love, sure most other religions offer hope and love as well. It's the faith within that makes you believe in whatever you choose to believe and with that, comes the feeling of hope and love.
You need to study more about the bible.. cause it seems u just hate God and are shouting ur opion and not any real facts.. Religion isn't based on physical human logic of i only believe what i see.. cause if that's what u believe u have no faith in a greater force... so r u an Athiest or just a God hater..
^ i dunno if she is on a vendetta i think she just likes to point out the weaknesses in flawed arguments, and your arguments are certainly that.
Eh, on what? And what facts do YOU have other than your so-called scriptures? The Bible is no more than a fable to me than some sacred text to you. If you want to discuss FACTS, then sure we can do so... provided YOU provide hard proven facts as well... and by that, I don't mean the BIBLE. LOL? I can discuss the BIBLE with you if you want. Let us proceed to some threads where I have quoted the Bible and made some questions, or do you dare? And uh please, since you said you have 'studied other religions', which other religions did you study? Cause I want to discuss Buddhism with you if you have studied that. Just because I don't believe in your 'God' doesn't mean I 'hate' God.. That's such a childish accusation. Religion isn't based on FACTS. It's pure belief.
So somehow pointing out flaws are a God-hating action. No wonder the hypothetical hell is so packed. I may as well be devoted to a divine salt-shaker since religion isn't based on physical human logic, how can you tell my salt-shaker isn't divine? For the record, I am neither an atheist nor a God hater. And oh, do us a favour of spell checking and actually make use of that "enter" break line button on your keyboard in your posts? Thanks, appreciate that. I have ABSOLUTE faith in a superior force, just that it isn't humanistic like Christian doctrine seem to believe and no, I don't think that hypothetical Heaven nor Hell actually exist. Greater force! You need to read up on some quantum physics...
^ quantum physics blows my mind lol i wish i had the level of intelligence required to work in that field, unfortunately i can't think outside of three dimensions
