Oh he is one lovely dude, Paul Gries (somehow I just can't get myself to call him prof. Gries or just Paul His full name got a nice ring to it ) And of course, the photos we use for those image manipulation are all about the faculties, it was kind of funny when you try to do that mirror thing and woo hoo! You got TWO Paul and TWO Jens Silly I know, but can't help but giggle...
My bad, I didn't exactly answer your question did I? Now, when and where did the Holy Spirit come in? I would assume that the Holy Spirit came into the picture around the time of Emperor Constantine since he's the creator of the theology that later became the Holy Trinity. I'm not sure though so I might check it out later. I havn't even check the resurrection of persons before Jesus thing.. Yeh, I'm a bit of a procrastinator at times, but I plan on working on that, eventually.
oh man, i missed a lot since yesterday. i dunno if i'm much up to this debate today. i committed too many sins today, probably that's why i didn't get as much tips today at work. okay first off, joker, yes i am the MOST perfect human being on this planet. u should make me ur idol. now that is good sarcasm that would actually NOT piss off people. okay next, again to joker, i'm sorry to disappoint in ur small minded world that people who aren't Christian could actually be good people. also, i don't want to be Jesus Christ. i have no desire for ppl like u to believe in me. since when is heaven exclusively reserved for Christians? see this is where u hit the most sour note with me. i am sooooo sick of ppl like u (not all Christians, joker has just decided to tread into the "piss me off" zone), u ignore all other religions in this world and deem them as non-existent and the wrong belief. how can u say one thing is the best when u haven't tried it all? i'm not saying go from one religion to another, but have u actually tried to open ur mind a little and read other religions? and realize, that other religions, just like Christianity, is for the good and not evil? again, answer my questions about the axe murderer getting salvation. do u believe this is alright? hypothetically, like my answer b4, someone hurt ur most loved one, that guilty person tells u he found jesus and is very remorseful. ur cool with it? if u are, go tell it to all those poor parents in this world who have lost their child to a rapist/murderer that's it's okay. or u could just tell them kids aren't that special so it doesn't matter. side note about the kids thing, seriously dude, if u have a thing against children, there's something wrong with u. no religion statement attached here. kids (before muchmusic/mtv, 50 cent and television destroy them) are innocent pure minds. if u don't plan on answering my questions, don't bother answering. i don't need another answer that is not really an answer.
Thing is, some of them are so deeply attached to their religion that they embraced their faith blindly without any questions, where they could notice the ambiguities in other religions, etc. they failed to see that their own religion has just as much holes as well, or maybe one of the most?
Me = Kind of off topic... But I never thought that kids (or children if you may) are pure and innocent... That just reminded me of that article I read about "Child Sacralization", how children are MADE to be socially sacred (as an accepted "value") and how it was only the middle-class value which deemed children sacred (unfortunately, this skewed value caught on in a hegenomic mess) Long story short, never for a second have I thought children to be sacred, innocent, or the embodiment of all good things. That's besides the point of this discussion, but I just have to say it @dann: And of course, 1984 in the absolute sense of truth... OMG I want to see BSG Razor >.<
^hiake: i get ur argument. i don't necessarily agree but...it's a good point nonetheless. i won't argue u cause u actually make legitimate points.
@hiake Here's your answer. "Story of the Church - The Emperor Constantine" http://www.ritchies.net/p2wk1.htm If you want to read only parts about the Holy Trinity just hold down both "Ctrl" and "F" at the same time while you're at the page and then enter "Trinity" in the search bar and the word "Trinity" should become highlighted. Here's abit more on the Trinity. http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm Here is an essay tittled, "THE ORIGIN OF THE HOLY TRINITY". http://www.kevinantoine.com/holytrinity.htm Also, here's an answer to the question, "Can you explain what the holy trinity is please?" And The best answer is very informative so I suggest the read. This part I really found interesting. (Below) http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20071207160329AAgNNXN Aten http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten "Urban Dictionary" Quoting #2:
Didn't mean to sound ungrateful, but similarities like these always make me wonder the authenticity of Christianity's claim that others are "idols"... Then again, to this day, it is still under debate whether other religions copied Christianity (before it even existed! Woo, that's some serious work for Satan) or vice versa... Then again, I hold an agnostic view. Never have I believe that there ISN'T something superior than us humans, just that the particular "being" doesn't need us to worship it nor would interfere with the times. And no way it is humanistic... ETA> Lower down in that same Yahoo!Answers thread, you can see some REALLY interesting answers: ^ My sentiments ^ Not sure if it is true, if it is, I guess Al-Quran, not Bible, is the true canon -unsure
Battlestar Galactica: Razor, a spin-off film of the series... And it's finally ending!!! I can go buy all the DVDs and do marathons on BSG at long last (I never quite bothered before since it would kill if I am left with a cliffhanger)!!!
Prepare to read an essay, possibly the only one i will ever write. I've come to a new perspective on the idea of God, based on the intense discussion with my folks. They've actually opened me up to new concepts about the origins of God. On a side note, we are all Buddhists, but we believe in a God. [essay] Anyways, to continue one, for the sake of the argument, let's use the famous concept of the chicken and the egg. Which one came first? Well, that's quite a hard question to ask. But before we get to that question, let's find a commonality between the two. they are both made of matter. Matter is obviously a collection of molecules and particles. And where did that particle come from? It must have been created by energy. Energy is required to create anything, without a doubt. This leads to the question, if energy is what created the universe, where did that first collection of energy come from? This is where God comes in. It's been numerously said that God created the universe. No doubt he did, by creating that first energy which lead to the creation of a particle and then matter. The example scientists have come up with was the Big Bang theory, the creation of that first wave of energy which sparked the creation of the universe. Thus, if God had created that first energy, then he must be energy himself. Again, it is impossible for things to appear out of thin air. So scientifically speaking, it is impossible for energy to be created out of no where. Thus begs the question, if energy is required to create energy, then the first energy must be created by another previous energy, which would be God in retrospect. Thus if God is energy, then the energy of God must be created by yet another precedent energy, based on the argument that energy cannot "pop out" of no where. Then if there is a precedent energy, then the first energy (such as that of the Big Bang theory), cannot be the first energy. Which again leads back to the question, where did that first energy (the one in which God is comprised of) come from? It is futile to continue on that infinite loop of question as it will always lead back to the question of where did that energy in which created God come from. Therefore, if God truly exists, no book or reference or resources in the history of mankind can ever answer that question. Thus, there is no proof of God, nor can the concept of God be ignored. With all that being said, in regards to the Bible reference, assuming the Bible was correct in saying God exists and there were witnesses to observe God, It does not explain the very origins of God. This comes to the dilemma that, yes people have seen God, which cannot be ignored, but have not come up with proof to support God either. This is the dilemma that they know God exists, but they just don't know how. And as for the chicken or the egg, well, either way, they were created by energy, which developed into particles and thus matter. Finally, since we do not know where that first wave of energy came from or originated from, there is no use pursuing the debate as to where God came from. Granted people may say God is not made out of energy, that leaves God as collection of thoughts and ideas, but those thoughts and ideas must come from somewhere, it must be a conscious mind, thus returning to matter, and then the beginning energy. Thus, since none of us will ever know in this life time where God came from, it is futile to continue arguing, but rather, one should focus on why one is on this Earth, and fulfill one's role while being alive. [/essay] These are questions have have been tried to be answered by experts philosophers with much higher knowledge than any of us since the very beginning of mankind. Of course, up until now, it has never been answered. Perhaps maybe God doesn't want us to know his/her/its origins, but rather have us focus on our task on Earth as living being. Feel free to discuss. edit: Now that I've thought of it, even the greatest minds such as Einstein's have tried to answer those questions. And he tried to do so through his Theory of Everything, which would solve all of our answers.. The Theory of Everything is the ultimate knowledge, and the ultimate knowledge belongs to God, assuming he exists. Actually, while I'm at that, the String Theory would be the general concept of what I have been trying to say. The String Theory is a tree map of the make up of anything, like say an object, which is made out of matter, which is made out of collection of molecules which is made out of particles which is made out of energy. But where did that energy come from?
@dann> we need the Unification Theory, a valid one, like NOW. I understand what you meant in your essay, wholeheartedly. And you are right, in the religious discussions we often failed to address how/where did God (or whatever superior beings you believe in) came into being. However, while that question is the root of all questions (thus Unification Theory), it was not exactly the topic at hand we are discussing... While on one hand, some believe that God exist and took part in human's life (in one way or another, with the notion of Heaven and Hell and all that jazz); the other's belief range from "no, there's no God nor superior being" (atheist) to "no, there is a superior being but we can't be certain of anything, but probably that superior being doesn't give a d*mn what happens to humans" (agnostic) to a wide spectrum of other beliefs (such as Buddhism). And that's exactly where the religious debate is the most fierce, the nature of God. Proving (or dis-proving) that God exists and interferes with human life is just one way to discredit another's belief, and a popular one at that because the notions and concepts are so familiar and require little to no specific training (just curious, how many following this thread has more than university level academic training in physics?). I am quickly straying off-topic here So that's that. Hope it somewhat addressed your essay.
It may not be the topic at hand we are discussing, but it relates back to the thread topic . Anyways, if that which you said is the main debate at the moment, I have no thoughts on it except that this becomes not how God was created, but rather, the ultimate human flaw, which is to be competitive, arrogant, offensive, and greed for power. Had the topic been about the origins of God, we would be looking at the beginning factors that spawned God. But now since the topic revolves on the war of the beliefs on God, we are basically fighting about who's right and who's wrong. So if I understand correctly, Christians believe that there is a God and everything in the Bible is correct. They also believe in the notion of Heaven and Hell. Atheists believe in no God, no super being. I don't know what agnostic means, but I'll take it as Hiake said. And Buddhists believe in the notion of Nirvana, Enlightenment, Reincarnation, but no Hell. And so forth with other religions. If this is the main topic of the debate, the only thing I can say for certain is that nobody is correct, nor is anybody false. The simple answer is we will never know during our time alive. Just like my argument in my essay above, there are no consistent proofs that support any claims by any religion, nor are there reasons to reject it. Granted each religion has had spiritual events, such as the Christian's recollection of witnessing Jesus, or the Buddhist's experience with spirituality, but none of those are enough to build a solid foundation to base a claim that their religion is correct. In the end, the ultimate answer will come when we have passed away. Otherwise, it is useless to debate for one's belief simply on groundless claims and rare and exceptional events. One can continue to believe it as they wish, but it is futile to argue against others that they are correct. That leads to the root of the problem, the arrogance of mankind, the lust for power and to always be correct. That is the sole reason why people want to argue for their own beliefs. I must admit, I am not free of this error. I am competitive, have an extremely high ego, will always want to show that I am right, but that is the nature of the human being. When talking about such topics like this one, I try to reduce that selfishness by listening to both side and take in as much information as I can. Then I can make a conjecture about it if I wish. But I do not claim that I am correct in any way. I will always assume that there is a high possibility that I am completely wrong. [/rant]
Well, I go into defensive mode EASILY and the whole debate thing is just an automatic reaction when other's discredit my belief Mere self-defense. But like I said in another thread recently, there's no way I will believe in a God while I am still alive and actively debating the topic. Yet I would CERTAINLY know when I took my last breath and see for myself whether judgment with an old man, judgment with myself or nothingness awaits. Until then, I will just embrace my belief to death. Til death do we part (or proven right)
Very wise words indeed. If things were as simple as this, humans can live in perfect harmony with each other.
It is completely understandable. Self-defense is, after all, an instinct of the human being. Hence it is why the idea of "Peace" is all but a dream, until we learn to rid ourselves of such flaws. On the other hand, others may argue that it is those exact flaws that makes us human. omg. I feel completely like a Vulcan on Star Trek. -dead
Oh it's true and I agree with you. The Quran stayed true to its original texts while Christians have changed, added, and have removed words and even entire passages from various versions of its bible. The Quran seems like the more authentic choice. @dann I agree with you, absolute nothingness cannot become something. Something had to create the creators creators creator times infinity. It's an infinite cycle of thoughts and possibilities. But even though I know that it's pointless to think about this I still do because it amazes me. It amazes me because if this cycle of repetitious thoughts are true, that absolute nothingness cannot become something, then the possibility of *brace urself* life elsewhere in the universe rises infinitely cause it's no longer limited by how big our universe is or how old it is. Think of the possibilities then. You should watch this documentry called Dangerous Knowledge or something to that effect, I believe. It's about a couple of mathematicians a couple of decades back that tried to solve the theory of infinity. Interesting fact, they all commited suicide. Yeh... I found it. Streaming on Google vid. http://bestdocumentaries.blogspot.com/2007/09/dangerous-knowledge-full-documentary.html
sounds interesting.. but its an hour and a half long lol ill watch it during the holidays if anything.. thanks for sharing tho anyways as per what you said, basically everything is infinite without a beginning.. because every beginning must have a beginning... so the beginning is infinite.. thus no longer making sense lol and if that infinity is true, then the world beyond our current universe must be infinite years old... which is so infinite that it becomes non-sense.... lol
^ And that is what's interesting. The non-sense. Possibilities so outrageous that they're considered non-sense. Needless to say I like sci-fi movies and shows haha. Eureka ftw!
