^ correct me if im wrong but aint you always posting pictures of half Asian women (the result of selling out as you say)? i may be wrong but ill keep a look out for it in future, .... Also wouldn't it be best if you stopped posting these kind of pictures in your avatar/signature? all your doing is helping the cause of showing asian women as sex objects, something which is rife in today's society. why dont you show more respectful pictures? This is something you cant blame on some elusive group of jews. i don’t believe your very consistent with what you claim going by what you’ve shown so far.
"We" asians don't have to live up to anything but our own standards... I don't see why "we" have to live up to being like Jackie Chan or Jet Li as you say... I find it hard to believe Hollywood decides to spend Millions of dollars just to hit the pride of Asian men... there's a lot of easier cheaper ways like spending a few hundred bucks on an Asian hooker... this "awareness" is completely self centered and just plain cowardly... the very same movies you mention also give sterotypes of the criminal black man, the stupid white man that thinks he can one up an Asian triad boss, and fat gay people... I don't see you fighting for their cause... and seriously... yeah, Asian women have the highest suicide rates in the US... but it's completely irresponsible to blame this on "white media"... parents have a role in their children's lives... and frankly... if your child suicides, you failed your child... regardless of what made your child want to kill themselves in the first place... I don't think you're weak... I do feel sorry for you though... it sounds like you have been at the short end of the stick... but like I said... you're all fighting a losing battle cuz you're looking at it all wrong... angryasianman's fighting a different battle than you guys he's fighting Asian injustice, you two on the other hand are fighting for self interest...
^ yep... Most people like this are too ignorant to realize that they're just being hypocrites. People take the word "discrimination" and "racism" WAY too seriously. If everyone thought this way then the media would be the most useless piece of crap ever. Oh! We can't report on this! Because it makes this race look bad! Oh no!
To moor_moth, There's a difference between fighting injustice and whining about how unfair the world is to them. And what injustice are you talking about? I'm not exactly sure what acts of discrimination kenshi is even addressing. Being hired for work? Getting an education? Kachi_no_Kemuri, Oh my god, dude, are you serious? "Hit them where it hurts" because the media has nothing better to do? Are you serious? Aoes's got it. The media makes fun of everyone, it plays on the stereotypes of everyone, and those stereotypes wouldn't exist if there wasn't some truth in them. What makes you think that the Asian male community is so ridiculously special that the media would have nothing to do but conspire against them? As an Asian woman, I am offended that there are guys out there who think we're that dumb that we would be brainwashed into falling for just white guys. It's an insult against your "own" women.
Morgaine unfairness is a injustice. It's fair to say they are doing their fair share of " fighting" I mean how else do you expect them to "fight" for what they are believing is right (without resorting to REAL violence). I could hardly say all they are doing is whining. Right now i spose they want to gather like minded people and to spread awareness out to the world about their view point and I dont think theres anything wrong with that because to an extent I'm with em on this one. In terms of being hired for work I know an asian friend of mine who has just changed her last name to one that sounds european just so that her prospects for getting work are higher. I mean its sad to say this but some people do judge you by your race (either subconciously or conciously) and make decisions based on it. I guess kenshi's just feeling this more than some of us who dont give a shit or dont think its happenin? In terms of the whole Asian girl white guy thing. To tell you the truth I've met guys like that who think asian girls are just some cheap side dishes and I've met asian women who think they the shiznit cuz they out with a white guy. And man oh man when you meet ppl like that you just feel like...-censored Granted I admit not every white guy and asian girl are like that alot of them are awesome couples and I totally respect that. A few of these dudes mustve just met the otherside of the stone more times than me to be pissed off to that extent and to be straight up with you if i met enough assholes like the ones stated previously then i'd prolly do the same shit as these guys. Yea but I guess in a way life is full of dickheads its all about what you wanna do in the end.
Aoes and whoever agrees with him: I don't want to argue about dating stuff, since I think that's entirely up to the person. The people themselves can choose whoever they want to date, I believe in that and whether they have an Asian fetish, White fetish or are complety neutral, it’s up to them. However with the media you’re wrong as you don’t bring the nuance well enough. They might stereotype the Black criminal, but aside from the criminal role the black man is established perfectly in many other roles like the white man is. That’s why it isn’t a stereotype, since they play any roles. Now for the Asian man, did you see any movies where they actually have a non martial role as purpose? Not really right? It has always been that, or some other lame sidekick. That makes your argument completely invalid. I don’t see anything wrong to fight that battle, of course it’s a lost battle as we don’t have much to say, but what moor_moth said: to raise awareness of open minded people and hopefully when many are aware, the reputation of that kind might be better if the public is aware of that. I don’t think you should feel sorry for this guy, but feel sorry for yourself for not seeing the difference. It's the same injustice that angryasianman sometimes point out. Nowadays the media is the current mindset of many people, people just don't understand how strong the influence of media can be: the media is the partly the big one who creates these stereotypes, problems and war on world. Hollywood doesn’t waste millions of dollars to actually hit the pride of Asian men, but indirect they do as they do whatever it’s best to fill up their wallets. Even if it's ruin the quality of movie, nothing beats them as it generates money (not all movies, but many do). Look at Dragonball, Forbidden Kingdom and 21. Those are easy examples to understand. White as in propagandists to sell the movie, it’s completely business, but when most of the rest of the crew are Asian (Dragonball), it’s not strange that people might think that they look down of Asians as they can’t have the main roles. Like I was the boss and I had to choose 2 different workers. One is Asian, the other is Caucasian. In my business it’s the Caucasian who the public will accept. I choose him consciously for my own profit; the other will lose, so how will that don’t hurt indirectly the feelings of others as this happens all the time?
well, i've seen movies wit asian guys as a computer geek, a hacker, a whimp, and acts like a typical "china man" sorta guy. It really pisses me off of how they uses asians like that. But wat can i do when everybody else likes it? I meant, US aint full of asians......... But wat REALLY pisses me off is that sometimes, these prickass producers/audiences uses the pride of asians as entertainments....i'm about to turn this country upside down. and im not even talking about only whites....... I dont need anybody standing up for me....... tat's telling us we're the weaker race. One day, ill defintely show them who's the superior race and one day, ill stand up for them. They're jsut jealous we got the hot cars/women/weird but hotass technologies/the population of us, etc, etc. AZN pride, yall.
Ah see... this is the difference here... Shiny, I totally agree to an extent, first off Kachi doesn't argue the same reasons as you or Moth, Kachi and OP really believe the "White Media" is actually deliberatly conspiring against Asian males... I don't, in fact everyone that's agreeing with me doesn't deny that the media does slant and stereotype the Asian populace, that's a given in order to sell, but they're not doing it just so they can prove their superiority as Kachi and OP seem to promote... in other words, both yourself and Moth are on the right track, I just don't agree with people like Kachi and OP who promote blaming all their problems on things like "white media"... secondly, it's true that we haven't seen many Asians starring in non martial arts, etc... However, who are the most prominent Asian superstars of the western world? Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Old man Chow Yun Fat, and to extent now Tony Jaa and Stephen Chow... What kind of movies have they produced since day one? ( Though i believe Jackie Chan was in a porno once? -huh)... It's not like Hollywood is saying "Make the Asian superstars play martial arts stunt supermen"... they do that back home anyways... and that's what each of those actors are good at selling... Some other asian stars now would be Kal Penn and John Cho, they play primarily comedy roles, are you going to throw them out of their primary roles and gamble on it? There have been some movies like Better Luck Tomorrow which portray what many Asian guys do go through in real life(aside from the main plot, I don't want to give it away), but are still completely full of stereotypes of the overachieving asian... and I can't believe I'm gonna do this, but Fast and Furious broke your mold to some extent as well... Do these movies indirectly stereotype Asians in general? yes, but it's not completely because Hollywood thinks that's what Asians are only good for... It's also because that's what Asians have primarily been able to sell to the western world in terms of media... and if you turn it around and look at it from a different perspective... you could even go as far as say Jackie Chan and Jet Li has been "selling out" on us, the Asian populace for continually allowing themselves to play these roles... but do you blame them? no... you choose to blame "white Hollywood"... and finally, I also do agree that Asians will get overlooked for jobs solely because they're Asian... However, look at it the other way, white people have been overlooked for school admittance because of affirmative actions in the past... and frankly, Asians just can't do some jobs simply because their race really won't allow them, for example working abroad like in Germany... most companies realistically won't send an Asian because there is racism outside of our bubble in the US *SHOCK*... do we like it? no, but we have to accept fact... likewise would you realistically send a white man to China if you have a perfectly good Asian to send over there with the same skill? Your argument for the basis of employment are completely based on profit and the requirements necessary for you to gain that profit... if the white guy can get me more money, I'll choose the white guy all the time... it's just rational self interest... if it hurts your feelings, sorry, but that's the real world when it comes to business... money really does talk...
and there i was thinking we were the human race, look forward to seeing you turn the country upside down -sleep
Well, good news is that there are more movies coming starring with Asians as in a non martial art role, so perhaps they break this nasty phenomenon. Often movies have lots of impact on the view of people. Especially on the ones who only watch Hollywood ones will get brainwashed lol. And to enjoy a good movie, the ethnics shouldn't be a problem, although many people will disagree with me. That's also why the public won't accept Asians in leading role, or perhaps Latins too etc. What you said is theoretically valid, but that is something we will never know whether they actually conspire against Asian or Asian males in entertainment or not. So then let’s counter this argument with the hypothesis by saying if they don’t deliberately conspire against Asian (males), then why are they so heavily underrepresented in Hollywood cinema or American entertainment? When you think one sells better than the other based on racial looks, then that’s the same as showing that you’re superior, or otherwise people would have looked over this aspect. Those stars are seen as Martial Artists, so of course they do what they are best in and that’s what we expect. Why do you think that they made into Hollywood? That’s because of the Martial Arts in movies and besides that Hollywood don’t want, nor accept them in for example a romance movie. It’s sometimes not about the prominent and settled stars, but also the unknown and upcoming ones. If Hollywood continues his prejudices about Asian males in general, then they won’t have a good start either. And by reading this part of your post, it only looks like that Asian superstars are only good at butt kicking , but that’s not true. I don’t see a problem by having them playing another role besides their comedy parts. It’s not that they can only do comedy roles, a good actor can’t do both and should have the chance to do it. Why not give them the leading role in a comedy film? That will never happen, we know it. I never said I would not blame Jackie Chan or either Jet Li for sometimes accepting some roles. But if you look from the other perspective of the actors themselves, then you might understand that. If you’re new to Hollywood and you want to break through. If there is a small or either big stereotypical role, then of course you’re going to grab that chance to settle down in Hollywood. Only what Chow Yun Fat and Jackie Chan already mentioned is that they can hardly get out of this stereotype: Hollywood don’t accept them except as Martial Artists. Do I need to blame the actors for this? Not really right? Do I need to blame Jackie Chan for him to play Drunken Master in Forbidden Kingdom, while another potential Asian guy at the tons of audition get rejected, because his type don’t sell? Well, don’t get me wrong, but I’m quite aware how things runs and of course people will always choose whatever fills their pockets the best. I’ve said that previously in my post. Although, I do find it sad if people don’t do anything about it: if they don’t give their voice that they don’t agree with things. Or that they say well just live with it, because that’s the world today is. If there is a case which is unjustified then the best thing to do is to show our voice and let others know it. Otherwise you just let them continue on what they like. All things begins at the individual. Your last part of your post just demoralize the people on what they believe and on what they are trying to fight against. And perhaps I would have send the white guy to China if he inherits the same lingual skill and cultural knowledge about Chinese culture. I mean he’s from another ethnic, but if he got the same skills, then that’s quite admirable. But aside from that, from your first sentence in this quote, you say that Asians are overlooked because they are Asian. So why so hard trying to defend “white media” aka Hollywood and saying that they don’t feel superior or whatsoever?
The people you've encountered and the people I've encountered are obviously on opposite ends of the spectrum. All of my cousins and many of my Asian friends are all very successful, regardless their age and gender. I have a female cousin who's an electrical engineer, a male cousin who's a stock trader and he's been all over the world. Even though we live in a "white society", we're all successful in it, but we're still proud of our Asian heritage. People who can't be proud of who they are, that's sad. But that doesn't mean, as an entire race, we need to "fight injustice". Apparently, many of us can still succeed. And yeah, there are a lot of guys out there who treat Asian women as nothing but a side of meat. But there are also a lot of guys who treat Black women like that and Middle Eastern women like that and even Caucasian women like that. It doesn't matter how much you try to educate people on the issue, there will always be jackasses like that out there. Why waste time trying to make an issue about the obvious? You're not going to change people like that, and the women who get hurt by them... those women, no matter what their race, don't need awareness raised about it. They need support and love and encouragement. As far as interracial dating goes, again, I don't believe that the majority of Asian women are brainwashed into thinking that only white men make good partners. I have yet to meet a single woman who believes that. Maybe it's just the people I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by. I know people in both same-race relationships and in interracial relationships and they're all happy where they are. To shiny, I think people need to remember that North America (and hence Hollywood) started out as a very white society thing. It's only been in the past 50 years that society itself has started to become more multicultural. And western media is slowly starting to reflect that. Asians were overlooked early on because they were a huge minority back then. It's only been the last few decades that the Asian population has exploded in North America. And now the western media is starting to reflect that. Slowly, but they're starting to. Besides, if you're going to talk about overlooking particular ethnic groups in western media, Asians aren't the only ones. Sure, the stereotype thus far associated with Asians is martial arts, but you gotta start somewhere. And over the past few years, we've started to see more and more Asians make a breakthrough. Look at Zhang Ziyi, Michelle Yeow, Li Gong. These women have started to break the stereotype of the "dragon lady", as someone mentioned earlier. You can't expect the change to happen overnight, but at least it's happening. I used to wonder why there wasn't enough Asian representation in western media. TV adverts were all Caucasians, TV shows were all Caucasians, etc. etc, but if you look around now, they're getting better. There are Koreans on Lost and Grey's Anatomy, TV journalists are mixed races, Le Chateau uses "Asian" mannequins (ever see one of those? They're kinda creepy, actually). There's progress! I just don't understand why people are behaving like there isn't.
I'll be honest and say that I haven't watched much TV to tell give much of an opinion on that matter, and also that I can't say for certain if Hollywood does or doesn't conspire against Asians, although I highly doubt it... I can however try to answer your hypothesis, fact is, underrepresentation is solely based on ratings and profit and again if that means indirectly choosing a non Asian to play a certain role, I'd do it. It's different among the all regions of the world. In San Francisco you'll find more Asian news reporters, in Los Angeles you'll find more Latino reporters... Is it because I think they're inferior as a race? No, it's just there to captivate more of the audience because they're a similar race as the audience... In that way, yes it's the same as choosing the "superior" candidate... They did the same thing to The Internal Affairs, they basically kept the same story, just Americanized it... Is that racist and did Hollywood do it to keep Asians down? It's pretty simple really... Would Leonardo Di Caprio put more seat more butts in the theatre or would Andy Lau in America? I understand what you're saying, but many of the arguments are being made about the movies Jackie Chan or Jet Li made... About the Super Martial Arts Asian man... I'm just saying that you can't expect Hollywood to star Jackie Chan in a romance movie... I mean his drama is pretty bad... and regarding up and coming Asian stars, I honestly can't say I know of many so I'm just going to play the ignorant role here instead and ask, how many people know Asians that major in drama and not in business or medicine or law? -sweat I think this will change soon as international films are finally getting recognition, so maybe within the next 10years this should change, I mean it took Stephen Chow how many years to acting and producing till he brought Shaolin Soccer/Kung Fu Hustle over? John Cho and Kal Penn are both starring in their own film -sweat... They've all ready done it a few years back... That's the point... it's all about perspective... and you can't just blame everything on "white media"... everyone involved is responsible... that's why you can't say that Hollywood is the sole owner of the blame for underrepresentation or stereotypes... I'll play devils advocate and say yes... You should blame them... why wouldn't you? You're saying it's okay to allow your own race to "sell out", but its not ok for Hollywood to buy them out? Honestly, I don't care if I do demoralize the people that are trying to fight against racism in the business world... I'll ask you now, if your client doesn't trust your agent that you sent to meet them because s/he is Asian, would you stop working with that client? I mean first off I'd be a real dumbass for not realizing this before I sent him... Am I being racist because I want to? no, its business, do I think my personnel is inferior? no, the client does... I agree Asians are overlooked, but "white media" should not be taking all the blame... there are plenty of prejudiced people in this world... and there are just really nothing you can do about it sometimes like in business... you can only hope that different parts of the world will eventually catch on... that's why I think people like angryasianman, they understand that blaming people for prejudice and racism is stupid... we should educate, not bitch and moan about Hollywood making Asians look stupid... I was in a rush, so if some of this doesn't make sense or needs explaining or i fcked up something... i guess i'll fix it later...
Morgaine: I think you’re living in a good atmosphere. I’m quite neutral with interracial dating, but you should believe that media have lots of influence on people, thus also on the Asian female. In this case if you only see white propagandist in romantic and cool movies and only silly and dumb ones of Asian males, then they might develop a crush for Caucasians, as their counterparts are underrepresented in media. So brainwashing might be a other term that’s suitable, although not the best term to use though. But I think that’s what moor_moth and others tried to say. And by the way, just search some video’s on youtube and you find an example of Asian girls saying why they prefer white boys for instance for the dumbest reasons and why they disike Asian boys and ironically this laps the same imagine of those two in movies. And don’t get me wrong , I believe in the individual who makes the difference, people who dated girls or guys from multiple ethnics knows that or the ones who’re open minded. Back to yours original respond on my message. Hollywood is typical white dominated, however do you notice how other cinema treats their minor ethnics in movies? That’s quite a astonishing difference in my opinion. And Asians aren’t the only ones who got problem with this, but others do have, I agree, but that doesn’t mean why we can’t voice this case. Zhang Ziyi, Michelle Yeow, Li Gong are breaking through Hollywood. Well they do make a change and that’s good. Further release should be noticed with Rain in Ninja Assasin and the upcoming one with Chow Yun Fat. These are good signals in hope that they break the dumb stereotypical roles. But the prejudice still remains, just see the Dragonball movie. I don’t live in America, so I don’t know whether things are changing. I merely give my opinion on the movies I have seen so far and their reputation. Having Obama as hopefully new president can improve the multicultural in America and shred some fresh new light on Hollywood movies. Although still with other countries like HK, the balance there is better when concerned racial views in movies or even in advertisements. Aoes Let’s bring some nuance in game. Reporters are chosen on their ability to write articles. Actors are represented in movies in the roles they play, there is a significant difference here that plays a role in people’s mindset. Thus also the importance in my opinion. In your way as you said yourself it’s after about all choosing the superior candidate, but often in Hollywood it doesn’t go along with the quality of actors themselves, but the racial looks. That is racist as they want to keep their own status high. And how can you do that? Yes by shutting down others, which is the same as conspire against them or not? The Departed is a remake of Infernal Affairs. They have the rights to choose the Leonardo above Andy Lau. That’s also more logical, since it’s a remake. That’s not racist, but what racist is, is something like Dragonball and the stereotyped roles that Asians have to play, while they hardly get other respected roles. You also mentioned that the audience needs to be captivated by the actor. But notice that America isn’t white. Of course the majority is, but it’s biased that they don’t accept Asians in leading roles, while Black people are acceptable for instant. I don’t say that all movies have to be played by Asians, but I would like to see more variety and the importance in roles that they play. Jackie Chan’s strongest points in his movies are the stunts and action. His acting is natural, which is most important, although I give you that Jackie isn’t the best actor around. But that’s also because he doesn’t have made any serious drama movies, we don’t know it yet. Concerning the major in drama, do you mean the Asians in America or in Asia? I strongly disbelieve that there aren’t Asians with major in drama who can’t break through properly. I’m certain as long as this prejudice holds, then they don’t have much chance than doing crappy roles with not much acknowledgement from the crowd. International films that are getting more recognition is a good thing. Although I thought that many Americans (I’m not American) don’t want to read subtitles, so that change is going terribly slow. People should look further in movies than what Hollywood offers for them. Then they can truly understand what kind of part of cinema they really missed and perhaps understand why many Hollywood movies are so crap and are only being made to pump money out of your wallet. Not saying that all Hollywood movies are crap, but too many are in fact. Stephen Chow is my hero. The years he took to make his movies show his determination to make good movies. That’s a terrible good aspect. I rather watch one good movie in 4 years, than 3 crappy ones from the same director in the same year. Excuses moi. Then it must have been a major flop? Well, look from this. If you don’t grab the money, then someone else will from that zillions of people will. Perhaps the one who took that money don’t have much of a living. So you blame them? If there is someone to blame, then blame the ones who’re in power. I say that they are 95% responsible, and 5% for the ones who fulfill all crappy sidekick roles. If they don’t take the role, then the chance is absolutely zero. If you blame that, then you aren’t being realistic. And this case wouldn’t be called sell out anymore if they were granted any other role besides their martial arts dump. You say then it’s their fault for not having given the chance to do something else? After all, who’s the one in control? Strange that you don’t support people who fight the suppression of their very own group on which you’re also part of. And no I won’t stop working with that client, although I would advice them for their loss, since it’s about the skills and not ethnic. The client here is racist, if I happen to give them their choice by sending non-Asians agents, then you’re having it their way. You play by their card, the stereotype will continue, the racism will continue. You do nothing to change that? It seems that you now say that the “white media” in America shouldn’t take the blame, because there are other prejudiced people in the world. Don’t you notice that this is a weak argument as like John hit me, I can hit him back? John killed my father, so I got the rights to kill his mother. You can’t use this argument to justify on what they do is correct. If any other media is doing similar things then I will correct too, so it’s not only the “white media” in America, but also the media in China. But the problem here is the “white media” in America. Changes are made by individuals. Individuals will fight for their justice if they got hope in what they believe. Hope can only be given if they understand and know the situation. If we don’t voice it, then they don’t know. If we educate, what will happen? How will that change Hollywood by placing Asian in stereotyped roles which makes the same as second ranked actors? Aren’t most Asians in America educated well enough compared to the American Africans and Caucasians and look at the current problem now?
Sorry when I said news reporters, I meant TV News Reporters... And I've never seen Hollywood choose an inferior actor in the name of race... I'm seriously tiring of this argument about Hollywood against Asians... this one statement alone is just completely off the charts in how one sided and bias the argument is getting... really now... you're proposing that Hollywood is intentionally holding back Asians to go as far as choosing inferior actors? Hollywood would actually give a role to Paris Hilton or Ashton Kutcher rather than give it to an Asian, just so Asians can feel like crap? Why isn't remaking the Departed considered racist? I would think this would be the ultimate disgrace of all, you too a perfectly good HK movie, and Americanized it because of the culture clash?(By the way, The Departed was a good movie I'm just, again, playing devil's advocate) And can someone explain to me why Dragonball is supposed to be racist? Ok lets get this straight... Asians can't play every role in movies... it's just not realistic... Spiderman isn't Asian... you can't make an Asian play King Arthur or one of his knights... James Bond is a white British guy, get over it... Godzilla can't play the Colverfield monster either, that's just not gonna work... Frankly, there are very few roles that you can just pull the leading actor/actress and plug in an Asian counterpart... and likewise, it's really hard to pull an Asian martial artist and put in a white guy to play that role... Chris Farley was able to sort of do it cuz he was funny... This will change, slowly but surely as Mograine has pointed at... New Police Story was supposed to be a serious drama movie he failed pretty bad at that...:Talktohand: This was partly a joke, but honestly, I haven't met an Asian drama major, or anyone that actually wanted to go out and become a big movie star... but if you have... hey I could be wrong, like I said, I was playing the ignorant role there haha... Yeah, like I said, it really is slowly but surely gaining recognition... So just calm your jets, it's coming... wait a few more years... A lot of the new movies coming out of HK are really damn good... Not really, Harold and Kumar can be said to be a success haha... there's a sequel coming later this year... So all good-bigclap That IS selling out... you're selling out your own culture so you can gain an advantage... I don't see how that's not the case... Jackie Chan and Jet Li are now prominent actors in the western world... but they still play the Martial Arts roles... at their own will... do you think Jackie Chan and Jet Li are still trying to break into the Western entertainment business? Are they waiting on the next movie to put food on the table? If you did that, you would lose your client... I know the client is racist, but I'm a rationally self interested individual so I'll continue as the client wishes... It's not that I don't support people that are fighting against racial stereotypes or injustices... I don't support those that believe that they are completely innocent... People like Kachi who blames suicides on "white media"... or people that blame white people for taking all the asian girls... or people that say white people are racist, but turn around and say black people are criminals... please, everyone wants to blame everyone else but themselves, and quite frankly... I'm fcking tired of it... I never said "white media" shouldn't take the blame... ffs someone read my statements and tell me I said that... I said that "white media" shouldn't take ALL the blame or the MAJORITY of it either... If Elmo teaches kids to be racist skin heads, do you blame Elmo or the parents? This argument about "white media" creating racism in our society is like people trying to blame Colombine or VA.Tech on Counter-Strike... You're absolutely right... problem is how many of us actually understand the problem? See my point? cuz the problem we're having now, are people that don't understand what they're fighting for...
That’s cool, but Hollywood will never say that they choose an actor due to the race borderlines. I don’t think that they choose actors, to make Asians feel like shit, but they do choose them for other reasons, while the results remain the same. You and I don’t know whether they do it to make us feel crap, we’ll never know that, unless you take a recorder and tape it when asking them very subtly lol. But either way, on how they do they make every part of culture ness in their movies like shit. I love Infernal Affairs and I haven’t seen the Departed, although the reviews of both men who saw the movies weren’t positive. But on the track, the Departed isn’t racist, because there aren’t stereotyped roles of Asians and the entire theme is changed and westernized. That’s called being consequent in movies. However Dragonball isn’t, let me tell you why. You say Asians can’t play every role in movies, that’s not just being realistic. Damn, you just hit the spot why some people like me think that’s unjustified, because they hardly have any decent roles. What you said now is like that the role of Goku was destined for a white actor! Compare with James Bong is nonsense, as those guys are settled and seen as white guys or are mentioned in books that they are white. Now I always saw Goku as an Asian, they now turn him into Caucasian like always with their movies. That’s what I called subtle racism, how can you think that this is acceptable and doesn’t make the fans, nor Asians a bit angry? This is exactly the problem what’s going on, so theory of you about them to make us feel shit do apply here. If everyone was white in the movie, then it’s cool. But now the two propagandists are white and the rest are played by Asians: like always filling up the crappy roles, even though the theme is perfectly suited for an new Asian guy to shine, but no they couldn’t face it and have replaced him. Just look at this, we take a very famous American cartoon that take place in Europe and we let it debut where the Caucasian people are the minority. In the movies the reputation of the Caucasians people aren’t great. But we don’t care. Now we put two Asians in the leading role, while actually it’s quite obvious that they are white. The wife of the propagandist is Caucasian too, gohan will turn out to be half blood lol. But either way, we place them as the stars and all sidekicks are played by Caucasians, while the story take place in Europe. How can this not be a bitchslap and overlooked? Won't they say it's subtle racism and Asian controlled media? Won't they complain about themselves for not having a decent chance to star in the movie and get a better reputation? I don’t count that melodrama as true drama. Perhaps his new movie “The Shinjuku Incident” can bring the difference on how people view on him. I don’t know myself whether I can take him seriously as drama actor like Tony Leung is. We’ll see. Haha, sorry I thought you were serious and all… But many of them won’t be aired worldwide I thought? And of the many foreign movies it seems that the box office and theater profit isn’t great too comparing with ordinary (dumb) Hollywood movies. Just Pan's Labyrinth, although the movie is quite awesome. Nice to hear, although I didn’t knew them, sorry. You know that martial art roles aren’t actually that bad. Bruce Lee showed that, Jet Li and Jackie Chan does that too. However, what makes this look that is that they or other Asians don’t get other roles. Filling up the roles itself isn’t bad, bad is that they can’t get other roles, so obviously it looks like selling out, but what can you do? Decline the roles? And did you know that Jackie Chan and Chow Yun Fat said this too in an interview? Jackie Chan lately have turned his eye more to Asia and noticeable the movies are also better. I believe the mass aren’t born racist, they just have the prejudices that Asians can’t be romantic, nor act decent in a non martial art films. They don’t have the sex appeal ect. This is all being caused by the past and current Hollywood films. If they ever saw a good movie with Asians and Caucasians and Blacks in leading, then they might change of the idea. Now with the comparison, let’s say that the client hold a view of Asians can’t do well business (stereotype). But in the end, after the try (after they saw the movie, and where the movie actually starred with an Asian!) the profit multiplied by tenfold and he’ll continue the work with them (he enjoys the movie and get rid of the prejudice). I understand that you don’t support the ones who think that they are innocent. That’s understandable and it’s a fact that every media got his prejudices sometimes, although not in the amount of that Hollywood has. Not to mention that Hollywood movies are aired worldwide, so there is a significant difference in how this can affect the mind of people and thus the importance. I believe that suicides due to the media can play a role, it would be also ignorant to close that out, but I don’t think it’s proper to blame that entirely without doing some decent research. Racism is a strong word, let’s say prejudice and stereotypes. Do disbelieve that the white media creates all this? Just look at the page of wikipedia where this is all mentioned. I don’t think he don’t agree with this like you said before, but I’m not certain though. White media shouldn’t take all blame or the majority of it in terms by causing suicides on children, but they do apply on prejudice and stereotypes, which eventually leads to hatred and racism. There is transition that is being left out, but having Hollywood creating this thought doesn’t help either, so in a indirect way it is part of what creates racism and hate don’t you think? I don’t know that to be honest. Forums are visited by a insignificant amount of people of the population, let alone that they are Asians and Asians born in overseas countries. I see your point, so for me it’s even more motivating to let others know and understand the phenomenon: so that they know what they should fight for.
Oh no i'm not making it sound like all the people I've ever met are shitheads Yea I know alot of asian people are highly successful, but the thing is "success" in this term is not just purely based on career but our social standing in a society. As much as there are people who succeed and make it while keeping their cultural heritage there are also people who cop out and due to the pressures of trying to fit in with the status quo they abandon their cultural heritage and westernize themselves in order be on par socially. I believe these people are affected by western media (whether intentionally or unintentionally) of course I am not supposing that western media should add "oriental perspective" to their productions but I am merely commenting that Kenshi to some extent is right when he says that western media effect, stereotype and isolate asian culture (Personally though I do not neccesarily think that this is done specifically just to fuck us up). Thats why I am not opposed to his "movement" and website because I think it allows people to re-awaken themselves to who they actually are, and the point of fact is that no matter how much we reinvent ourselves to be "western" there is still an asian element of us which will always be percieved by other people that is difficult if not impossible to change. This domination by the west can also be seen by their monopolization of the lucrative productions of China and other asian countries. Western companies such as Nike, Adidas etc are making a profit from the cheap labour and hiking up the prices of the produce that these labours produce. It's up to the point that not only Western people monopolize on asians but fellow countrymen monopolize on each other as well. If these people would only realize and stand up to this form of subservency they could create a economic system that was fairer to themselves and less exploited by the west, It is apparent that this western dominon is not just on a society based level but on a global level as well. In regards to the treatment of women from other cultural grounds yes I accept that it happens to them as well, but you can only feel the reality of an issue if it hits close to home. What would you think of a chinese person who was protesting with a group of black people for black rights? Its not that it would be wrong that he is fighting for black people its just that it would be hard for him to relate to the suffering of a people when he is not affected by what is happening to them. So if Kenshi or anybody else here was to raise an opinion as to the objectification, disrespect or ill treatment of a certain culture of women I'd expect them to raise this issue on Asian women rather than any other ethnicity simply because it is the group which he relates to the most. In my opinion people who fight other peoples fights either Have huge as balls, Are aware of the plight of people who are outside of their own social strata (I highly admire these people) or are just plain stupid. Raising this issue as with any issue is important, not everybody is obvious that an issue exists and in this case with asian women there are people who dont even realize that it is going on. I also like to raise the fact that it DOES in fact matter that we educate people on this issue as with any issue. Yes there will always be jackasses out there but that is not an excuse to increase awareness of these issues. There will always be STD's why should we educate people on this issue? There will always be criminals why should we bother rehabiltating them or even sending them to jail? Because every bit counts and if we can change even one persons view on this subject then it's worth doing. In regards to women who have been treated as such by these men yes I agree that they need love and encouragement. But they also need to be aware of this issue as well. Some women go through the system being objectified and dont even realize it. As to you're final point I agree completely no I dont think majority of women are being brainwashed into thinking that only white men make good partners, but there is a small minority that do and their the ones that piss me off. I dont think interracial dating is a bad thing either and I think if people really have the respect for each other interracial dating can in fact help different cultures to assimilate together in a positive way. Sorry for this long fuckin as rant. You see recently one of the political parties where i'm from have suggested to shut the door specifically on Asian immigrants. This has nothing to do with their standard of communication either because they had already previously added an english competency test to the immigration criteria. Apparently because of our increasing rise in numbers we will be forming our own "mini-societies to the detriment of integration." Fuck them.
woah the answers in these threads are the length of short essays. certainly detailed answers in here.
However, those results are indirect like you said previously... it's not on purpose, it's just resulted that way... and you can't change a movie that's all ready made... I'm not saying it's racist or prejudiced because it's full of stereotypes, it's the thought that you took the the original HK story, and said it's not good enough, the direction's not good enough, the actors are not good enough and so they Americanized it... that's a complete insult to redo something and sell it because it's thought to be inferior(again... I don't think it was inferior haha both movies were really pretty good) to an American production... LoL to be honest I didn't know Goku was going to be played by a white guy... in fact, someone told me it was gonna be Jackie Chan or the guy that played Liu Kang in Mortal Kombat LoL... well look at it this way, the movie's not gonna make any money haha so be happy bout that... it'll be an easy one to boycott... and if it makes you feel better, since we are on PA, i'll just DL it instead-evil I don't think he'll ever be a very good drama guy, he seems like he's getting a bit senile now though haha You're right, the money from box office is still low now... but there's been more and more lately, it used to be where the only way to get international films was to order it online or go to Chinatown, or some a really good video store with a large library... Now, you can pick up international films at a lot of retail stores... Theatres are getting more and more international films these days too... it's catching on... Yeah, I think they should decline the roles... without either Jackie Chan or Jet Li or any of the big name chinese martial arts actors, they wouldn't be able to sell the movie as much as the could have... Imagine Rush Hour without Jackie Chan... it wouldn't sell.. Chris Tucker's good, but not that good:laugh: I haven't seen Jackie's newer Chinese movies... in general I think his movies haven't been as good in the last 8-10 years -_-2... some exceptions of course... Chow Yun Fat's a god though... he's like the Asian Shaft almost:laugh: Oh, this is a good argument haha... the first and probably only real problem I have with thinking this way is the risk... Hollywood films are now being made with production budgets of over the hundreds of millions of dollars, same with business, if your box office fails to gross because you tried an experiment you're fired and probably won't get another directing job of this caliber or if you're a producer you'll probably never work as a producer ever again... This would only work for low budget films, and it's still somewhat hard to make a name for yourself with low budget films regardless of race... I'm not gonna be ignorant and say that it doesn't, because Hollywood does create these social prejudices and it does put added pressure on society to act a certain way.. However, that doesn't justify acting that way and then turning around and say Hollywood made me do it... Gun's don't kill people... remember that... If your goal is to fight against stereotypes and Asian injustices in the media, you have my support and I'll help spread your motivation...-rockon but to say something like Hollywood is secretly holding meetings in a back room plotting on how to demoralize and crush the Asian Male population by turning their women into dragon ladies; and making the men look geeky, but pull off cool stunt moves where the purpose is to reveal how insignificant their race is... that's just silly
We don't know whether it's on purpose, I mean they are aware of this, so you can't speak that it is not on purpose or that they didn’t do this consciously. I dislike American remakes, because they tend to give not much credit, even though they don't have to because they have the rights. But it's a shame, that such a dominant cinema steals idea from others and that people truly love those movies. QT is a great example on how he grabs and mixes and people love that. Haha, well many people will go to the cinema because of the name and many people don't care whether Goku played by Asian or white fellow. If there is something cool to see, then they will buy it like always His best one in the last 5 years was Rob-B-Hood. The rest are so avarage to bad. That's good news, people might see what crap they're currently buying from, because one is too dominant. Although still the changes will go slowly. Lol, still I disagree that it's called selling out - you know that sounds so cheap. I mean Jet Li can't do anything else besides his Martial Arts. If it is in Hollywood then it's called selling out, if it's made in Asia, what is it called then? Making movies? That's why Hollywood sucks. Too much money involved and this is for them more important than the quality often. I mean you don't need hundreds of millions of dollars to make a decent movie, Jackie Chan and many other Asian producers have proved that. Too much money = lazy filmmaking and wasting money. People nowadays should be more critical, or else we'll be watching Rambo XIII and Diehard vol. 5,2 soon :nuts: I'll give you that. Both got their influences. But still I don't think the media shouldn’t be underestimated. Like politics is a nasty thing, media is that too. Tell enough lies, people will actually believe it. See Hitler’s propaganda and American news (Industerial Military Complex, ever saw the documentairy "Why we Fight?"). Feed your baby audience with the same shit all over about races and they will believe it too. Not everyone is stable and mentally wrong to sustain that. Or to look outside their current view. Notice how many Asian males cry that they can’t score a chick? I don’t think this that they are all mentally weak, but because of this it’s hard to say that the media doesn’t have any influence at all on how people’s mindset will be. See the zillions of funny and sometimes sad youtube video's concerning this crap. But cool, we agree with on something, let’s leave it here -lol Haha, that is something we never know, but glad to have your support though. That phenomenon might be caused directly or indirectly. It’s a theory and presumption that might be possible concerning the situation now, see Dragonball for example. Only if I did had a glass ball where I can see the future and predicts people’s mind, then we can all live in a more happy world. Peace! -pirate
