heated debate O____O after reading what knoc, aoes, and NAS has said i have come to some what of a general ideal consensus.... Homeless people are people who have made the wrong choices, but that doesn't go to say that these people made the wrong choices on purpose.... the economy has a lot to play in this role as well, the recent wall street crisis is a great example of how many people are getting laid off/fired whatever throwing them out onto the street to find a new job. Someone with a college degree that has been in the company for 10-15 years may be able to find a job much more easily than others while those without a degree and try to find a job elsewhere do you think they will get the same payroll? Even if they reapplied to the same company?(as redundant as that sounds) Yes they may still find a job but now think of it as if a family of 5, the father working for construction and a mother a waitress, they are getting on by just fine and then the construction company goes out of business or lays him off and the mothers waitress job just doesn't provide enough to pay the bill, what do they do with their 3 kids? Their house is foreclosed and they move into a minivan and travel to california looking for work while sending their kids to a school for homeless kids... as they aren't completely homeless they are still considered that way... but yet they are trying, they both don't have degrees so finding a job that pays enough will be tough.. Some people are homeless without a choice as well, aoes have you ever thought that for some people that don't have great paying jobs their houses are basically their life savings? after natural disasters many are unable to pay for the damages and are basically left to fend for themselves... its kind of hard psychologically to bounce back from something like that.... some people lose the will to try so hard because they have and it was all taken away from them..... homeless people and beggars are also two different groups of people but are generally classed the same..... one homeless people are those that are still getting by, still trying.... but beggars... they are the people who have decided to throw their lives in the hands of others... they have throw away shame. but seriously... a homeless person without the will power will not be able to maintain a job.
The people who choose to be homeless are just LAZY, nothing else to it. They can't be bothered with the house chores.
ask a 4yo or 5yo or someone really young, but atleast can speak to you... ask them "When you need help, who do you go to..." eventually when u nudge them enuff they'll say something along the lines of police or firemen... or some public authority figure... if a 5yo can do it, why can't a 25yo bum do it? sure the police won't help him directly, but atleast they can direct them to the station or somewhere they can get help... u gotta give people w/o a college education more credit... there's something called common sense in the world... just because ur uneducated doesn't mean u don't understand 1+1 = 2, chopping wood does not require a doctorate degree... college students that don't know how to get aide are just too lazy to go ask the front office... or they didn't even know aide existed cuz they didn't need it as much as others who truly needed it... people who are in need of help will search for it... a bum asking for money will ask for it... therefore if the person didn't know aide existed it's because he didn't need it to begin with... it doesn't take someone with a masters degree to know if they have money or not to pay for food or shelter... natural human instincts for survival will kick in, first food, then shelter... a human will naturally need to get food and naturally will want to sleep without rain falling on their face at night... u don't need to plan that, u just need a way to pay for it... people that blow money away on booze and drugs... that's again... a choice... don't start with me about unfair advantages in this world... ur example is extreme, but whatever yeah sure the scientist will probably survive better... but o well sucks for him... the world is unfair... deal with it... I agree with ur situations and descriptions of possible scenarios... but at the end of the day... after all the troubles that people go through there is still a way to get back... all you've said is how and why they're homeless... but there is nothing in there that says they can't possibly work their way out of it... again i've never said the road to recovery from homelessness was an easy one... I know it will be very tough for the people involved especially children... they will have to overcome their hate, anguish, resentment, depression, etc... but it's not impossible as long as they want it... like u said, they have to have the will power... there is nothing that says once u become homeless, it will be hopeless to try to get back on track... you guys are all trying to tell me that homelessness is societies fault and the homeless themselves have no responsibilities for themselves... if that is true then there would be a lot more homeless out there right now from all the layoffs in recent months... but its not... people will find a way to adapt... some roads are easier than others for sure, but no one as long as they have a choice, can't overcome homelessness... I don't have all the answers to how homeless people can get out of being homeless... but I'm telling u that there's always a way, and as long as u want it, u don't have to be homeless...
I believe anyone can get off the streets if they put their mind into it. Sure there are circumstances that may have put you where you are but if u choose to be a drug addict, alcoholic and stay on the streets , not get a job and blame the government, your parents or blame your own life crisis then that is what you made yourself to be not other people. yes life is a game , the choices u make affect your everyday life and no one is to put you in that situation but yourself. Everything that makes you what you are is in your mind , if you think of yourself as a homeless bum not capable of picking yourself off the streets then you will remain that way but one day you are going to wake up and hopefully pick yourself up and move on. So do i think people choose to be homeless? No not purposely but they surely are capable of picking themselves off the streets if they choose to help themselves by getting help for themselves or simply help themselves. the simple question is , if you found yourself in a situation where you ended up homeless with nothing in the bank and no education, friends of family, what would u do?
exactly! THANK YOU!!... I don't have a solution for that last question because different people have different skill sets and mind sets... age, race, sex all come into play when looking for help... again it's not impossible... just different for everyone
u said my example was extreme but the 4/5 year old vs. bum example is also extreme. it's like a kitty cat and a sewer rat came up to you for help which one would you try harder to help. i would definitely take more time to help the kid b/c i understand that they are young, but if a 25 year old bum come up 2 me, i'll probably ask once and leave, maybe just walking away/keeping a distance cause of his appearance. and the jungle example i can add to that. just think of the edible plants as the real free aid and the poisonous ones as the scams. the educated person would know which one to go to and get more benefits...again he will have a more effective way to get to his goal. i can just keep going with the examples lol...a n00b computer user clicking on a link, thinking its porn. and experience one, knowing its something worst. just saying skill sets and knowledgeability will come into play eventually. yes i was trying to say that the whole time, but you disagreed somehow, u basically tried to say skill sets didn't even offer advantages. i'm not saying a bum can't get help, i was just talking about the college educated guy's experiment was just complete bullshit. unless he brainwashed himself or something he always have the skills advantage over the bums.
I think we have gone in different directions here. We have on one hand, the choice to be homeless and on the other, getting out of being homeless. I will get to that last point later, as i don't see it being relevant here. To the main point at hand, is being homeless a choice? For some, absolutely not. We must get clear that there are those that choose to be homeless and those that do not have the option and are forced into it. Being homeless, hands down, is not a choice that "all" people make. You are wrong there in assuming society cannot be blamed. In circumstances, it can be societies fault. It was something called the "great depression". Again, homelessness is not a choice by some. Again, you are wrong, homelessness can mean poverty. You are making too many assumptions and generalizations here. Your point in originally disagreeing with me was made on a generalization and you were also wrong in saying that. It is not always by choice to be homeless. People can, and are, affected by circumstances and situations beyond their control that put them where they are.Your reply introduced a new situation into this discussion. One that should be argued separately. My choice not to give a person a few dollars is not passing judgement on them. I make no assumptions about who that person is or how they got there. It is simply a choice i make. Making a decision to not give someone money on the streets is by no means a gesture that i do not want to help. Now, i will touch on that point about being homeless and wanting to get out of that situation.That raises a different argument. I agree, there is a choice to get out of being homeless. That choice and responsibility falls of the individual. Making the choice is simple, motivation and finding the will is the tricky part. As humans we are not perfect. As much as the will and effort is there, some can't do it by themselves and need help. This help is not always there. When you are on the streets, trying hard to find a way out, priorities may be different. Eating food now for the first time in days or getting through a cold night will put finding a way to get out of this at the bottom of the list. You tend to think about what happens in the present and how you will get by the hour instead of long term planning to get out of the situation. For those that are there by choice, do not want to help themselves, fully rational and aware of their situation and choose to free load on society, fuck em. My statements are geared to that selected few that aren't there by choice. Knoc
i never said skill sets didn't matter... i said skill sets don't determine whether someone can get themselves out of being homeless... everyone has different advantages, a college degree doesn't automatically mean u will have an easier time... it may help, it may not... point is, it doesn't matter because anyone regardless of what their background is can get out of it... the college guy's experiment isn't bullshit... it proves that there are ways to get out of being homeless... granted he probably had an advantage because he knew exactly where to get help, but it doesn't mean that help isn't being offered to other homeless... lets just for example say i kick someone out of their home, take their job and their savings away... he's standing on a corner with nothing... i forced him into homelessness as u would say... ok... that's half the point... the other half remains that with what the person is going to do at that stage and point of his life... if he gives up... fine he's homeless... but it's his choice to give up... if he moves on with his life in search of help, in search of a way out of his situation, u can't call that homelessness anymore... he is in a transitional phase... the argument u present always takes the power out off the hands of the person... the person is always forced this and that... but what happens once he reaches to the point of he's not forced anymore? the power always comes back to the person, and the person therein makes his choice... "it takes two to tango", "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."... u can't make an argument soley on one side of the spectrum... The great depression did not put everyone out of their homes... the great depression simply migrated everyone... labor moved from the dustbowl towards the west during the depression as an example... aren't u generalizing to begin with in ur previous post by saying poverty = homelessness? i just simply pointed out that poverty doesn't mean homelessness... i never said it couldn't mean homelessness... your choice of not giving money is a judgement... somewhere in your mind, there is obviously something more important to you than helping that person on the street... whether u consciously think so or not... otherwise u wouldn't make that decision... u weighed two options out and decided that x > bum... therefore it is a gesture that u dont' want to help this guy on the street by giving him some money... it's your money, i have no right to tell u what to do with it, but the process in which someone decides to allocate their resources depends on how important each investment is to you... and the bum... is obviously not very high on your list...
well the college degree doesn't matter thats the point he's trying to make, but all those years through college, learning those skills other might not have, that's what matters. but yea i know help is offered to others, but advantage is definitely the key word here and he definitely has that. so he's definitely going to do things faster no doubt. it might take him 9 months cause he has a plan but for others it might take 9 years. just saying he's gonna have an easier time in the end. i still don't think his experiment is a legit way of proving the system works, i'll only believe it if they get real subjects to do it and not someone in disguise, but even that there are many factors to consider (like the subjects being informed as opposed to the others who have to look for it).
Ummm homeless......i think it depends on the situation that they are in coz they all have to own reason to why they are homeless so its tough to say "why people choose to be homeless". Andd i agree with others saying being homeless is not a choice for some...
This is getting redundant. The main point has been lost in distortion, assumptions and generalizations. No longer be replying. Will be following the thread. Knoc
I dont know if you guys have ever seen the San Francisco bum drummer? He drums on trash but he loves it. Every time I'm in SF I see that guy happily drumming on cans, bottles, paint containers, garbage cans... everything.. Hes really good, and I bet if he wanted to, he could be doing performances for some good $$$. but instead he drums on the streets for people walking by him... Although he does get alot of tips.. like I looked inside his box at the end of a day I saw some many 1 dollars I couldnt believe it LOL...
