Two words on those healing sessions: PLACEBO EFFECT what spiritual things happen to these peoples bodies? do they start walking around with an aura? or angel wings from their guardians? i say its still just a buncha bullocks.... seriously....
you can chat on that it's placebo effect (I have read up on all sorts of psychology- my sister studies it at uni).. but this is different. this really happens... but when i had the whole.. weird spiritual thing going in a worship session with like hundreds of ppl. whatever happened to me, i didn't have a clue what it was ( i hadn't been told about it or heard about it either)... i didn't even have a clue about what this whole spiritual thing was.... but that night ...i had all the goosebumps, you feel rly cold (i was in a room with hundreds of ppl- it was boiling hot.), the effortless breathing etc... im not gonna into details lol...(you can look up things urself hahaha) ... im not lying either. i didnt even know what was going on... but i felt rly scared obviously.. but my youth group leader had prayed on me.. hands on my head.. and she started speaking in tongues... and whatever i was like thinking or questioning in my head... she was answering it- in translation to the tongue speaking... etc etc (she didnt know what i was thinking)... obviously it freaked me out, how could it have not been =_=".... and at the time i didn't know much either until i asked one of the young workers that night. and she told me what it was.. and it's not happened to me before.... and it's not placebo effect because i've not heard it before. .. i've not digged deep into what happens in the whole spiritual realm or things.. but from what ive seen happening to my friends and in other churches...it's similar ..and other things... and im sure it mentions about the laughter of the holy spirit somewhere in the Bible. I've seen it happen and it's not fake. the person was unconscious for like.. ages.. and i know this person. he would NOT be lying or faking it at all. He's a youth friend as well... i'm not forcing you to believe in God and i understand that you say you don't need Him at all...and i know ....obviously as humans, we only believe in things when we see it lolz. you'd only realise God is real if He suddenly revealed himself to us and shook the whole world... right?? anyways sorry if i sound like an insane person.. lolz haha.. but im sure there have been many other ppl who have seen or heard things like this.... Everyone still has doubts.. even i do every now and again.... even if God did not exist at the end of the day (lolz).. i'd still be glad i followed the Bible? In a way it's helped me as a person....and i feel at peace. oh man i sound rly serious haha... *takes it easy*
Ok I want a shot at this. I haven't read all the replies so pardon me for repeating anything. Also, although I consider myself Christian this is in no way my own personal beliefs. This goes on the assumption that we are talking about God, the source of all things. 1. "If God were omnipotent, he would be able to create fire without combusting flammable gas. But the laws of physics say that fire cannot exist without a source." -- God is the source. Simplistic I know. Maybe not what you were looking for. 2. "If God were omnipotent, he would be able to make an atom not move at all but still have a temperature above absolute zero. The laws of physics say this is impossible, therefore, God cannot do that." -- This question isn't why can't God do this, it's why doesn''t God do this? Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't happen. It may go against the laws of physics but those are God's laws of physics aren't they? I would submit that if God were to break His own laws he would cease to be God. It'd be a paradox in and of itself. 3. "The laws of math say that four is divisible by two. If God were omnipotent, he'd be able to change that. But it is impossible to change a number from being even to odd without changing the value of the number." -- Again this is a grand design question. One that doesn't state it can't be done, but rather it hasn't been done. Since math and science are created by God, changing something like this would break the fabric that creates our reality so God could do this, but why would he unless you would want to unbalance our universe? And if that were to happen, then we wouldn't need to have this debate because we wouldn't exist. 4. "Also, you cannot be drinking and not be drinking at the same time. Not even God can do that. Therefore, God is not omnipotent. Therefore, God does not exist." -- This is a concept tied to the physical world which God does not exist in, therefore we cannot do this and I don't see why God would need to do this. This seems like a balance/order of the universe question, which again God created this concept. 5. Regarding the papers. If you believe everything you read without research and understanding you are following the same path as those who believe in the Bible. You fault yourself into believing that what the other person is telling you is truth. Based on some facts which are turned into assumptions and speculation. Of course, there is no incontrovertible truth, therefore you are left in the same predicament as the others. Truth is a matter of opinion based on the facts which we formulate in our minds. We see something, we study and analyze it, and we call it truth, based on our perceptions of reality not necessarily because that's how it is, but rather how we see it. 6. As for spirits...I am not an expert on this as I am not an expert on any of the above comments, but I have heard people describe spirits of existing with energy. Ethereal forms would need to have this in order to be. A third part is time. I don't fully know the nature of spirits nor how they may or may not exist, so I like you cannot make a "proof" based on this. I would ask though, if we are part spirit and matter, and based on the principles of the conservation of matter and energy, wouldn't we exist in spirit form too, because we can't just simply "disappear"?
I think it's the THOMAS THEOREM. It is simply stated that: If men defines situations are real, they are real in their consequence.
didn't even notice your post.... unless you are a psychology major you wouldn't completely understand how easy and selfish the human mind works. You were in a room full of people doing the same exact thing, im sure you were not oblivious to the what this session was for. Your believed something was to happen and your mind made it feel like it was happening, your youth leader merely just probably gave you the same spiel they do for horoscopes where no matter what sign you are it can still apply to you. Reading facial expressions, with body language and providing a soothing general answer shouldn't be hard especially if its someone basically telling you Jesus is with you, you do not have to worry, accept him and he will look after you and the such.... but i suppose following the teachings of the bible can make for some well mannered people and that is great.
That's more based on faith isn't it? The only reason I would say it's easier to prove God exists is because we still can't answer WHY things are, we can answer everything else pretty much, HOW something is, WHAT it is, WHERE it is, WHEN it will be somewhere, etc. Science tells us everything except the existential question of why we or anything for that matter exists. If it's random chance then that's odd. If someone can create something from nothing then maybe there is no God...
this has become a very big thread, i remember when BigSmoke started this thread and after a few posts he quit PA lolz
the same can be said for god how does it create itself from nothing? so if god was able to do that wouldn't it rather more logical that nothing created something.
^ But your assuming that God lives in the realm of time just because you and I do. God lives in eternity where there is no beginning or end, God didn't create himself, he has always been and always will be. I think its something we will better understand when we die and pass over into eternity.
lol that still doesn't explain how god created itself , we're trying to get to the beginning of things, god just can't chill out in eternity outta nowhere. Im basing this logic on something has to be made by something = god made us it couldn't have made itself therefore it isn't the ultimate being so it has to have a god of its own and repeats.
when i say God wasnt created then you reply with "that doesnt explain how God was created" I get the feeling you didnt read my post properly. Chill out in eternity outta nowere?? first of all how do YOU know? second, i get the feeling were on different pages in regard to what eternity is. Does your logic apply to spiritual things too? aside from that most i can say is re-read my post above..
i really think you don't get what i am saying, no matter how u put it the question is , how does god create itself as there must be a creator for everything. Please try to think outta the "faith" context as it allows no room for no logical argument but rather what you think and end of story.
For a person who is saying how things must be i believe your displaying a fair bit of faith yourself or do you think faith is only exercised by people who believe in God, im speaking about a realm outside of space-time, something i believe scientist even talk about, something your refusing to acknowledge, so Please try to think outta the "time" context as it allows no room for logical argument but rather what you think and end of story.
look i really know what you are trying to say but you can't seem to grasp your own god logic that there must be something to be able to have created something so it doesn't matter where god is it needs to have a creator to create itself and it can't do that alone or outta nowhere or frozen in time, if this could of been proven then we'd have no reason to doubt god
i don't believe you understand what im saying, huh, god logic, frozen in time?? End of story?? and a post ago you was accusing me of being the "so end of story" type, rofl
