I kept reading about UN sanctions and all these craps against North Korea but each time, they still went along with their plan of missile test. US was just standing by and didn't do anything. I am beginning to wonder if we are just "talk" and "NO" action type. NK is becoming a real threat now and provoking war sorta way. I know we are at war in the Middle East and in huge deficit; but we should really allocate military power and crush the NK before we are invaded. We are not getting anything from the Middle East anyway. What's the hell is OBAMA thinking? Diplomacy is obviously not working because NK is not cooperating. Time for action. I hope this ain't true .. that Obama is O=One B=Big A=Ass M=Mistake A=America.
Ralph is the man with the knowledge and resources, very reliable, ^__^. Wait until he post, it's probably going to be long.
^ yeah ... he'll start another war that possibly end the world. In his opinion, we should just nuke that bastard out of the face of the earth.
^ lol yeah, if he has beef with NK then strap up and go over there yourself and deal with the problem, when you get killed you wont have to worry about NK invading you and the rest of us can live on.
I actually agree with Negigboyz; 20 years of sanctions have produced nothing. It's apparent to me at least, that the DPRK really never intended to negotiate anything at all. They're using the prospects of "talks" as a carrot to dangle before the world whilst they rest and re-arm, just like the Taliban or insurgent tactics when cornered. Fact is, through several US administrations, there has been zero progress using the tact of talks or negotiation. Obama may be the wrong man for this job, and Kim certainly understands this. That's why he's removing all pretense of negotiations now. Kim is essentially telling Obama that, "...the US is a pussy, and you're an even bigger one." Obama has two choices, stick his tail between his legs and leave, or stick a missile up Kim's ass. There is no room for middle ground any more. Thus, the ONLY way that I see the US in dealing with this is one of two ways. 1. Abandon the ROK and force the Chinese to become the biggest player on the board; thus, no matter how reluctantly, they will then HAVE to act. 2. Force a regime change in the DPRK, either by overt assassination of Kim or covert encouragement of a political coup. Forget about the populace rising up; they're all in camps already so the only ones that can actually over throw Kim would be someone close to him. Like Reagan did with Lybia, a 2000 pound bomb through an asshole's bedroom window says "I love you" like nothing else. Either way. What is known as a sea change has occurred. The DPRK now feels that it can fire missiles with impunity and gain nukes at its leisure. ***Sidebar 1 *** No thanks to Bush, we squander men and good munitions on a needless war in Iraq. Now that we may actually need to go to war, our best soldiers are beset with PTSD and our ammunition bunkers are depleted. ***Sidebar 2 *** Watch for China to start tightening it's border with the DPRK. Once it does that, it is a prelude to cutting off aid. China's biggest fear is the flood of refugees into northern China if food aid is stopped. The biggest source of food and fuel right now for the DPRK is the PRC. So China can apply pressure, just that it hasn't to this point.
^ thank you, Ralph .. For the others .. get your freaking facts straight .. if we don't strike now, we will all fucking go to hell sometimes in the future. Oh yeah, I still don't think Obama is a good president; nor do McCain. However, McCain would've been a better leader because of his military experience especially when we're at war now. Thus far, all I see is Obama trying to please everyone without a real vision or goals in mind. For example, he nominated Sotamayor as the next Supreme Court justice because of public interest groups demanded for a "woman" and "latino" in the court .. WTF .. The guy is like a puppet and the people are totally pulling the string to make him pass all the bills before the end of this year; before the next election which can potentially affect the number of Democrat members in the Congress and Senate .. meaning harder to pass bills.
^ i couldn't care less, ill die one day, at the hands of age/disease/thugs/terrorists/war, but if you get run over today you can die happy knowing you escaped the ebil NK but if the vehicle was made in NK then irony ftl.
The idea of having a nuclear rogue with less than 10 minutes missile flight time from Beijing is something that should weigh very heavily on the minds within Zhongnanhai. The DPRK could not only bite the hand that feeds it, but literally decapitate the Chinese government with one missile. By the time any warning gets out, it would be moot as Beijing would already be a mushroom cloud. For that reason alone, China could ill afford to have any new nuclear neighbors. Further, I personally don't think that the immediate threat insofar as a nuclear armed DPRK would be to the US, but rather, it would certainly destabilized the region by forcing Japan to become a nuclear military power in response. So instead of having one nuclear rogue, China would have a former enemy become nuclear tipped to. What do you think the ROK would do then, if everyone else has a nuke and it doesn't? It would buy into the old MAD protocol (mutually assured destruction - if you launch, then I launch and we both die posture) just to protect itself from the DPRK as the US is no longer able to shield it. Hence, a nuclear armed DPRK would almost certainly initiate a serious arms race in the Pac Rim, change the balance of power with the DRPK and Japan as winners, and China, Russia and US as moderate strategic losers. The biggest loser would be the ROK. By allowing the DPRK to nuclear arm itself, the protection offered to the ROK by the US would have been shown to be rather toothless. This would embolden the DPRK to make continuous demands of the ROK for escalating concessions, which it would have no other recourse but to give. War is never good. However, waiting for your enemy to sharpen his sword and muster his men in preparation, and then allowing him the first blow, while morally noble, amounts to tactical suicide. The decisive key for a relatively short conflict is to strike first, hard, and with extreme prejudice at high value political targets. Question to Obama, "...if a madman is holding a knife to your daughter's throat, will you pull the trigger or try to talk him out of it?"
^ doubt obama is here to answer :kekekegay: maybe someone will troll by making an Obama account though -bowroflarms-woot2
This won't end well at all... The repercussions of either a coup or a full on war will end with the fattest headache ever... wtf do we do with NK?
another view is its all a big show and at the very top everyone works towards a common goal, if a war happens you can be sure it was planned already, war is the greatest money making avenue. in the end we can all play president but we just have to live on and not live in fear, if its (world war) gona happen then its going to happen regardless of all the 'behind a keyboard' advice (which tends to exclude 99% of the factors involved in a decision) we give, and it will eventually happen, but thats life.
There is a possible way out of this. Like the Chinese example, when the intransigent political leader dropped dead, money uber alles became the mantra of the PRC. Not only did it lift the people out of poverty, it bound once mortal enemies at the economic hip. I'm sure that there are plenty of DPRK side liners just itching to get rich. One of them may just be convinced enough to put a little extra spice into Kim's kimchee. Ideologues are great as theorists. But they're horrible when put in charge and confronted with the realities of life and needs of civilization. I bet you when Castro finally kicks the bucket, ¡Viva la Revolucion! is going to become ¡Viva el Dinero! As I see it, the only problem here is Kim. Get rid of him and the problem will go away. War is the biggest money maker? I beg to differ. Firstly, I call your attention to the US economy collapsing around us despite TWO simultaneous wars in progress. Wars are no longer the broad economic boost that it once was like back during WW2 (which actually lifted the US out of the post depression). Secondly, manufacturing for war today is actually a very narrow specialized economy. Moreover, the US population is nearly three times what it was just before WW2; meaning that an equally broad economic benefit would have to provide betterment for nearly threefold as many people; ie, you would, in today's terms, need three times as many war related jobs as seen in WW2. Further, manufacturing has become dramatically more efficient. The average number of total man hours needed to produce a unit of war material today is probably only a tiny fraction of that of 1940. That is, one 2009 man is probably as productive as several hundred 1940's men when you factor in computers, tools, and other engineering advances. To make matters worse, the size of the active military has steadily decreased; there are simply less soldiers than there once were, which then impacts down the line for less of everything that GI Joe would otherwise need (uniforms, food, munitions, housing, condoms, etc). War; it ain't the money maker that it used to be, not by a long shot.
There is another way to go about this. Obviously, the US needs to send a message of resolve, and one can be sent rather loudly. If it were up to me I would accelerate the combat troop and equipment withdrawal from Iraq, put the war on terror in Afghanistan on hold. Transfer the long range B52 combat squadrons to Guam, cancel all leaves in the Pacific theater. Order all US dependents living in the ROK to evacuate back to the continental US, and recall US Pacific nuclear subs to port for rearming and refitting. Order every available US carrier fleet in the Pacific back to port, then north on station to the east of Korea. Order all US prepositioned war stocks around the globe to begin shifting to Japan. What does the all the above say to any Pac Rim leader or military strategist? I am about to start a war with North Korea, and I don't care who knows about it. At the least, it would raise the pucker factor a notch or two in Pyongyang.
lol .. I don't know much about the military planning; all I care is that we got crush the NK before they do it to us. China ain't gonna budge .. the only reason NK can be such an ass is because they know China and Russia got their back. Without the help from these countries, NK wouldn't have survived all these years especially with all those freaking sanctions in place. COMMUNISTS.. hate them ... We the US may be ahead of the game when it comes to military power (advanced techs and stuffs) but without a good plans and leader, it doesn't mean a thing. We can still lose the war. OBAMA has no military experience; thus far, I only see TALK TALK and more TALK. I just hope he doesn't need to see an attack on our land before he realize that the "talking" is useless.
before u go off on another communist hate spree... none of the countries you have expressed hatred for are communist, each have strayed far from the traditional sense of what true communism is... communism != dictatorships... in a sense, traditional Marxist communism is more democratic than the US is today...
