have a read http://occupywallst.org/ its nice to have a group that stands up to say something, but the qn is... who's there to listen and act upon it if the govt doesn't... picking on those walking past in suits isn't the way to go
I'll address your points that I haven't already addressed. But I feel like we can make it a better and more just world if we stand together. Of course you deserve to be rewarded for your hard work. But I feel that you also have the social responsibility to justly pay back/pay for the means and people that and who got you there as well as take responsibility for the environmental consequences of production, distribution, etc. of whatever it is that you are marketing or making a profit off of. Also, million dollar bonuses aren't rewards for hard work, theyr'e just taking advantage of the system because you can. As for me, I honestly don't see myself in a situation where I'd have ridiculously exorbitant amounts of money. I try to go about my day under the philosophy of "live simply so that others may simply live." Of course, I know I come from a very privilege position where I can afford to not have money be an issue in my life, but I know of others who live comfortably on not that much. It's just getting to that point of being OK that is not even being realized for many Americans. AND therein lies our problem. So, back to greed, I feel that government needs to reign in that greed and put restrictions on it. Instead, though, it seems only to encourage it (but that is no surprise there if you look at who funds political campaigns). Except this sin't the scenario we are talking about. We are talking about business that aren't at risk of shutting down, but are exploiting workers anyways solely because they can, BECAUSE government doesn't regulate them.
It's a wake up call for our government to represent the people again and not the corporations. At the protests there are people in suits that support it. This isn't about picking on the wealthiest 1% (though the wealthiest 1% has profited excessively at the expense of the 99%), this is about restoring our democracy and the principals of fairness and equality America was founded on.
Have you guys heard of the 53% thing? Basically it's a bunch of people with the message that the reason people are in such a bad situation is because they are lazy. There's this guy who said he has 3 jobs, insane insurance costs and a house he can't sell. He claims to be part of this 53% that pay the federal income tax. I think it's completely stupid. The people of this 53% know exactly what is wrong with the economy, they state all the problems, but the only difference from the 99% is that they blame themselves for not having a better life. It feels like they're all so stuck up on the conservative agenda to accept what's wrong with the country. They need to take a step back and ask themselves. "Why do I have to work 3 jobs and still not have enough money to pay my bills or mortgage?" Also here's nice article with some data http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1 it's pretty informative and I'd recommend you guys read it.
WHILE the rich don't get taxed their fair share. Also, thanks for the link. I'll add it to the first post.
restoring fairness and equality?? what america was founded on?? really?? look back at history - and you'll notice that nothings ever been "fair" on a personal note, i've never been a fan of politics and always been biased against them (there are exceptions) 99% of the time, they're just in it for themselves. most of them aren't even properly educated yet they still get paid craploads to do nothing so for them to "represent" the people... good luck... it's always going to be about them before us and it's not like the so called "rich" don't pay tax. them finding loop holes - good for them it's not like the others don't find loopholes either until they get off their arses and start doing something properly, nothings gonna change spending all that time protesting - they've got their message across. its worldwide publicity continuing to do it? what additional benefit is there? maybe with the combined knowledge and efforts, they can do something that will help those in need fixing stuff up for a few people here and there, or even taking down a few corporations or what not... still not going to help the economy
America was founded on those principles. The extent to which it has met them, however, has been varied and right now is not one of its brightest moments (though it is brighter than others-say, slavery). Everything is relative, but it's our job to imagine a better world. Well, that's what I've been saying. I think we have to move away from them being about themselves. It's about the rich paying their fair share of taxes. I never said they didn't pay taxes at all. Would you say the same about women's rights and African American suffrage? I feel that having people stand up for what they believe in can make all the difference in the world. It certainly beats sitting on you ass and doing nothing. This movement is starting a ripple effect throughout the country and the world for people to wake up and take a stance. Because people are bringing these protests home and to their local and community governments (as well as addressing the larger systematic issues)I think that there can be change. More people are starting to talk about the movement and already public figure heads and politicians are attempting to appeal to the OWS demographic. That's not the goal. This movement is about financial reform.
Sigh... This stupid Occupy the City bullshit started in America, now it's in Toronto... This Robin Hood fiasco is starting to really piss me off. LG you say "Don't be naive" but the majority of the stuff you write on this board, on top of this thread, is all naivety at its finest. I'm sorry, but when people protest because of some stupid gap between the rich and the poor, that THEY THEMSELVES put themselves in, it's called greed. And greed is in all of us. Why should the rich, who have worked for their money (aside from shit like school tuition because I am in fact against high tuition obviously), work to make it fair for the poorer, who are i) too lazy to get an education, ii) have gotten an education but due to unfortunate circumstances are in the financial hole as they are, iii) are successful, but due to their inability to be financially responsible. I for one, am part of the second point. I happen to have an education, but due to unfortunate circumstances, am in a financial shithole. But you don't see me going around asking for rich people to be fairer to me. It's called life, and deal the fuck with it. You get your ass out of the shithole, without bringing other people in. If I was rich, I'd say fuck off to these Robin Hood fiascos. If I was poor, and I am, I'd still say fuck off to these Robin Hood fiascos. Life ain't fair, live with it, or get your ass out of the shit hole.
^ this isn't about Robin Hood fiascos. This is about Reverse Robin Hood fiascos. Reverse Robin Hood because for decades now, the transfer of wealth has been from the middle class to the upper 1%. When you have top 1% of the population holding 95% of the wealth and the bottom 99% holding to 5% of the wealth, this is bound to happen. We have again the elite class controlling the "slave" class. And everyday you go to work ... trying to make a living wage and get taxed 30% of your earned income. Whilst the rich, making billions and get deductions and exemptions (for example, farming deductions because they have acres of lands - but not actually farming; and they get subsidies to not farm). Not only that, when they face financial issues, it's the taxpayers (middle class) that had to bail them out; under the "too big to fail" conditions. And what do they do? The CEOs get big bonuses; give raises to the executives. Meanwhile, the government is talking about taking away Social Security because the program is bankrupt. Who's taking all that money away? Every employee pays in for 30-40 years of their working lives; hoping to get a modest 10-20 years of retirement at a reduced rate of what they paid in. And they are talking about taking that away ... It's laws like these; it's laws that the rich lobbied for that creates these protests. How many of the lobbyists are former "aides" to Representatives / Senators? This is corruption at large. So yes, I said it's about time. I'm just surprised it hasn't boil over into something bigger ...
Everyone gets taxed. That's a fact. Here's another fact. They get taxed based on their revenue income. The percentage of tax you pay is based on your taxable income. If you are poor, you will pay less taxes than one who is rich. One who gets taxed %30 percent of their taxable income is MUCH less than a rich who gets taxed %45 of his or her taxable income. If you are poor and make $10, you lose $3. If you are rich and make $20, you lose $9. I know it's a terrible scenario, but in that scenario, the rich lose nearly what the poor made. Also, people seem to have a wrong understanding of what corporate "bonuses" truly means. Executives make a base salary, it could be something like say $150,000. But the condition of a bonus is based on performance of the executive. An executive can't not make a bonus, it's part of his performance compensation. He can make less, or more bonus. So when people think that a bonus is some amount of money that executives pocket from the company just for the hell of it, and think that executives should not receive bonuses, it's fucking stupid. Corporates pay a large chunk of the overall taxes to federal, provincial, and municipal. I don't see why the HELL people are still whining about paying too much tax. And another rant on tax. Tax is something that's required every where. Your tax money doesn't just go to the companies, it goes to the maintenance of your city's infrastructure, roads, buildings etc. It goes to the sustainability of the place you live in. Your tax money is like the money you spend to fix your damn house. Those who whine about paying too much tax probably don't have a clear understanding of where the money goes. A chunk of it goes to the salary of executives, yes, but the other chunk goes to the maintenance of your damn land. There are those who do stupid shit with the money, like Toronto's Mayor Rob Ford, who blindly cuts critical programs and stocks up on cash. Those are the people you should complain about. Edit: also another thing that's really stupid. All these protested for Occupy The City are all claiming oh high taxes high taxes that. Yet you have morons running around the city for Occupy, vandalizing shit buildings, roads and shit. Are you for real? If you're going to be arguing for all this tax bullshit, you'd figure that by vandalizing, the taxes raise in order to COVER the damn repairs. Idiots.
If they run the damn corporation to the ground where they need bailouts from the government / taxpayers, do they still qualify for the performance bonuses? In the normal PEOPLE's lives, you do not only NOT get a bonus if you run something to the ground; you also GET FIRED! So why are those elite so special (besides having the money to lobby congress)? You have to admit ... The tax law in US has alot of loopholes for the rich and corporations. There's no way in hell an employee can make USD80000, pays $0 in taxes and get a tax refund of $5000, for example. But, it happens alot for corporations ... GE for example made $14.2 billion in profits for 2010; pays $0 in taxes; in fact gets 3.2 billion (was it 3.2) in tax credits? Is this your definition of smart? And you feel the need to protect these people and their tasteless actions? I'm not against paying taxes if 90% of my taxes are used back to improve the roads / bridges etc. My tax money is used for nation building .. in Iraq and Afghanistan. The problem is I'm driving on terrible roads and crossing bridges that I wonder when will this fail and I'll plunge into the river.
Just an FYI.. In my previous post, I used foul language that was not directed to you nor any reader... I tend to voice my frustration and anger like that.. Anyways, yes, I do agree with some of the stuff you said. Corporations aren't clean, of course. The reason I'm arguing against is because: A) Only a small number of people are arguing against B) The general population, like us, have not a single clue of what really goes on behind the scenes in terms of bonus handouts or any actions taken by the companies nor the government. So we do not have the right to make potentially false claims, based on not having any actual facts. And news are NOT fact. They are owned by corporations themselves, so to be making such accusations based on no facts is intolerable to me, regardless of how guilty they may be. C) Even if the event was held for a cause that happens to be true, the stupid actions committed by some protesters are detestable. Shit like vandalism, and disorderly conduct that threatens the peace. If people are going to argue for lesser taxes or some bullshit like that, don't be a hypocrite and do things that would cause the taxes to raise. These people are dumbasses. I am not protecting nor justifying the actions made by the corporations. I am arguing against actions that are founded on factless information, false accusations without actual support, and stupid assumptions. My biggest pet-peeve is deciding based on stupid assumptions. If you're going to make assumptions, at least go through the thousands of pages of report analysis by the companies, investigate, and THEN make the accusation. (Again, not directing it to you, I tend to use the term "you" to denote a third person) People are quick to assume, blame, judge and hang, whether they are in fact guilty or not. This royally pisses me off the most.
Reviving this thread because there is a video that needs to be shown to show how fucking stupid this Occupy Wall street movement is. [video=youtube;qdLa6c3hN1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdLa6c3hN1w[/video] [video=youtube;aEDWs-KNf-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEDWs-KNf-0[/video] As a friend of mine clearly puts: People are greedy fucks and think they know what the fuck is going on, when they don't have a slightest clue. Edit: after rereading over this thread, I seriously can't believe what the fuck is wrong with some posters. "Can't ignore the rich" what the fuck did the rich do to you? The rich became rich because they worked their asses off. The rich are the ones who GIVE you the jobs. The rich are the ones who PAY MOST OF THE TAXES. You pay 35%, they pay 50%+, and this based on THEIR income. The tax they pay is more than all of your taxes combined. The rich are the ones who fight to ensure your fucking tuition is lower. The rich are the ones who FIGHT the government, trying to reduce taxes. "Don't be naive" someone said. Your biggest source of information is the media, and the media is known to selectively announce certain news. That means your information is flawed. Talk about hypocrisy. Yes there are some rich who are corrupt, but to blindly protest stupid shit like this without having a single clue as to what's going on, just shows how fucking stupid the population is.
That's why they need to evolve into something else. That's why they have the "mic check" demonstrations in speeches. It's not being covered nearly enough by the media; and it should.
They should dissolve into nothingness, that's what they should do. While these lazy fucks are out there spending some quality time in the park, "protesting", the rest of the population is hard at work earning money. They claim corporations are stealing their money, well two points to that: 1) YOU are the one who decides to purchase their product and/or service. 2) YOU are the one who's sitting on your ass protesting, instead of going out and work to earn a living. Having said that, all this does it makes the protesters look like complete fucktards. Who the FUCK are you (those who protest), to run in this "Occupy" bullshit? Edit: the fact that you rely on news media as a source of information is ridiculous. Media is a business. They announce information that is beneficial to them. Therefore they are biased. The fact that some of you rely on news from the media as a valid source of information is absolutely mindblowing.
ppl on here have seriously gotta stop being sheep... GE paid taxes for 2010... stop reading bullshit and not reading the other side... http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/04/the-truth-about-ges-tax-bill/ getting pretty damn tired of this occupy shit myself...
they doing it for the wrong reasons should focus more how the rich is able to influence the way the government is going etc lobbying and shit but i guess they just in it for selfish ish like everyone in this so called 99% "movement" lol. at first many were like yeahhh!!! then you think about it and ask geez is it really the rich ppl's fault that our ass too lazy to work? or at least not party in college and get a more prestigious degree? how is not working and sittin in the streets all day basically asking for a handout gonna send a positive message at all rofl.
Perhaps this "Occupy" movement would be more effective, if they had some reasonable solutions to the problems they're protesting. Regarding news media, I'd like to say that it's very important to think about what your being told, as opposed to just absorbing information. A lot of times, news outlets are indeed biased.
there's a bunch of kids still around with their parents and i swear - those kids have no idea whats going on... its sutpid to drag kids into this unnecessairly
