I am not sure if anyone here follow on this issue. II is a huge problem in the US and the government is not taking drastic action to curb it despite our already drained tax funds. Paving a way for the II to get residency and eventual citizenship, what does that mean to those here legally? Yeah, I understand some would say that the best solution is to make these II paid rather than letting them using our public resources for free and/or possibly creating more problems. Then again, if such measure is implemented, then wouldn't it encourage more II?
Personally, I think what kills the chance of reform is the "road to citizenship" argument. IMHO, illegals or the more PC, 'undocumented' should NEVER be granted citizenship if they didn't get into the country legally. However, having said that; given that they're already a productive member of American society (subject to oversight), regulatory accommodations should be made to legalize their presence, collect taxes, and change their status to 'documented, but ineligible for naturalization'. In this manner, they will become legal working residents of the US but cannot become citizens. Another idea is to subject them to a surcharge; ie. a tax for being illegal. IMHO, what encourages immigrants isn't really freedom or legalities, but money opportunity. So long as there is a persistent gradient of economics, created by financial disparity between two bordering nations, there will always be migration by whatever means, from the poorer to the richer nation; that much is a social given throughout human history. The only thing that would discourage illegals to the US is if we were in the same miserable shoes that they (whoever they may be) are in. Until then, we remain near the upper tiers of the list for undocumented migration.
many solid points ralph! some i never thought of before. also, i'm not sure whether you were up really late or up super early...but i digress. the one issue i have a hard time having a stance for is illegal immigrants and financial aid, but the way i see it, we have enough trouble already making education and other public goods affordable to all legal residents (at least in CA).
You've hit on one of the most contentious issues within the "illegal immigration" debate; that is, how much of American public resources should be made available to them, if at all? There are some that would say, none, and be damned about it. Others would treat them like any other American. I'm sort of in the middle of the road about this. Allowing them public resources, IMHO, is more of an emotional issue than it is a fiscal one. This is because they're already here to begin with, and are already using the American social system (for example, education, unpaid emergency room visits) to a high degree. Making them legal and letting them avail themselves of other US benefits really isn't that much of an additional drain in resources. But the outcry and political displeasure will surely be extreme and totally disproportionate to the fiscal impact. The flip side of this is that if we don't allow benefits, especially for their children, many of which are American citizens (whether we like how they achieved that or not; legally that's what they are), would live and suffer in poverty, creating another ripple of social problems that we certainly don't want or need. But given that money and scarce resources are involved, there are no simple solutions; every quarter will argue for their share of, as you alluded to, a very limited money pie. I'm not sure if there can be an answer that would please everyone. But having said that, I think that educational financial aid for schools should be given to all American citizens (whether their parents are illegal or not would be inconsequential). Thereafter, the same aid could be offered to illegals, with a penalty reduction. Lest we forget, the whole impetus for illegal migration is money; thus, that is the issue on which we must focus our attack in order to stem the flow. We must make it as costly as possible to be an illegal immigrant to the US, to take away the incentives that cause migrants to cross the border or to stay on illegally.
Even more absurd news here: Letting non citizens serve jury duty .. WTF .. what's the point of US citizenship? California probably has the worst public officials in the country .. freaking un-American officials who should be removed from public office ASAP. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...would-let-illegal-immigrants-serve-on-juries/
Serving on the jury is something reserved for US citizens only. That's the US system. If you let non citizens serve on jury duty, then the next step will be to let them vote in the elections too. Then you would question, why bother getting naturalization at all? One still gets the same benefits and rights as any other citizens.
I tend to agree; jury service, and indeed voting and running for office, should be reserved for citizens, because they are the ones that have the most stake in the system's success as they are literally the owners of it. Non citizens don't have the same obligations in that they can legally choose to depart this nation at any time. And at Dan, Being "legally in a country" can imply many things; one may be here on a student, tourist or some other time constrained visa and may not necessarily indicate any real commitment to the United States. When the missus took her citizenship test, I was really astonished at the depth of the questions considered as basic knowledge of our republic, which she had to know in order to pass. But then it dawned on me that in order to fully appreciate America as a way of life, one needs to understand it's history, political process, and system of government; its checks and balances. The naturalization process ensures that citizenship applicants, at least had one brief period of their lives in which this information was important to them, as it should be to all Americans. That is why it is so important to have only citizens within the jury pool; it's a way of preserving our most important values which then forms the bedrock of our existence as a nation.
