Serious discussion: Incest

Ok, I've seen enough of what members here on PA has to say/defend about the undeniable incest that goes on in this series. I'm going to use the actors real names to make everything easier instead of using broken pinyin to cite their name in the series.

This "incestry" issue involves the bonding between Raymond and Linda, Tavia liking Moses, and Kate currently dating Moses -- NONE of these "relationships" are blood-related, as y'all know.

What I want to say is, who the hell CARES if they're not blood-related? How could some of you even begin to say that it's ALRIGHT if Kate dates Moses or it's OKAY if Linda is going to date Raymond or it's FINE if Tavia is going to date Moses just because they're all not blood-related? Here's my take:

1) Linda's mother is Raymond's father's wife, thus Raymond and Linda are stepbrother/sisters. Thus, stepbrother dating stepsister = incest.

2) Tavia is adopted, yes.. but the fact is, Moses and Tavia are considered BROTHER AND SISTER from when they were little and they still are brother and sister -- both Ha Yu and Lee Si Kei are their registered father and mother, respectively. Tell me, how are they supposed to be together? It should be obvious that this is straight up incest.

3) Moses and Kate. Every character in the series thought that Susanna Kwan was the sister of Lee Si Kei from the beginning up until episode 25ish. Now, how is it OK for Moses and Kate to date JUST BECAUSE they recently found out that Susanna Kwan ain't blood-related to Lee Si Kei (they probably still do consider each other as sisters)?! While we're on the subject, I want to point out a mistake TVB made: they had Kate flirt and "seduce" Moses even before they realized Susanna Kwan wasn't related to them, thus cousins WOOing one another?! It's convenient and typical of TVB to make Susanna Kwan not blood-related to Lee Si Kei just so the dating between Kate and Moses wouldn't technically be incest. Still, Moses and Kate are still so closely related that it's awkward as fuck for them to be dating.

Everybody is connected to one another (not by blood) in some shape or form, thus it's wrong for them to be dating/banging/etc. I hate it how TVB HAS TO add in some kind relationship shit between the characters to draw the audience, which stirs up these incest aspects.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. as noted on the title, this is a serious discussion. Don't be dropping by and say something idiotic like "tavia and moses are cute together" or some irrelevant one liner bull. Ya got that, bbes and Phil?

 

rsx just thought to let u know there is already a serious discussion and i find it unnecessary to open another thread specifically talking about the incest in HOFG2 you can do that in the other thread but anyway i understand what your trying to see but still if they like each other you cant help it can you? And like someone said on another thread if its on a mothers side in chinese tradition its ok!

 

yea the cousins thing is ok by chinese traditions, still nasty though. but in the end it's not as weird as they barely knew each other growing up and susanna is not blood related. linda chung and raymond were dating before their parents married each other, but yea now it's really weird and fucked up if they decide to date, it's kinda sick. but the nastiest thing here is definitely tavia and moses...WTF!!!!! lol even though the parents split up, moses always had a close relationship with all his siblings and also basically his mother side of the family. and they were siblings ever since kids, i don't give a shit about the "adopted" excuse. this is just plain 100% wrong. it would be kinda passable in a story with an ancient setting, but since this is modern day, WTF!!!! the writers were stupid to put something like this in.

 

@heavenz: I didn't want to "intrude" the discussion that was already going on in the serious discussion thread made by Expresso, which is why I made this thread. Plus, I wanted a thread mainly focused on this issue. Mods can merge the two if need be.

As already said in the main post: when they first met and all, Moses/Kate and everybody else had no doubt that Susanna Kwan was the sister to Lee Si Kei, thus.. how the HELL do you fall for each other (never mind flirting and gettin frisky with one another!) when the two still thought of one another as cousins? You have to realize that Moses and Kate already had something for each other even before they found out that Susanna Kwan is not related to Lee Si Kei. Then TVB goes ahead and magically makes Susanna Kwan not blood-related to Lee Si Kei just so the audience wouldn't complain that Moses+Kate would be incest (despicable move, btw). And I don't buy all that "if you date a cousin from your mothers side, it's OK, in Chinese traditions!" Screw that, cousins falling for one another is flat out wrong.

It's just like meeting and flirting with a cousin that you've never met/seen before, knowing FULL WELL that she's your aunt's daughter at the time. That's fucked up!

 

^different country different belief, life is fucked up deal with it haha... if you watched alot of tvb dramas you'll know that there are tons of them with this type of relationship in it. this is definitely not the first time lol. and yea the storyline about susanna kwan not being the real daughter was probably for that reason lol, really unnecessary at this point if it is for that reason though, as u can see it didn't change ur thoughts. anyways its a messed up thought to have a love relationship with your relative but it's beyond messed up to have a relationship with your sister lol. i think the writers were drunk lol.

 

I think one of the main problems for MR is that there are so many blockbuster superstars involved, so to get any of the stars to go out with some 3 rated actor would not be justified. Also it's not cost effective, so as usual the TVB script writers take the easy way out and make it 'possible' for all these relationships to conveniently happen.

Yes, I do find it all incestuous, as I can't even bear the thought of falling for anyone within the family, it's just soooo wrong mate!

 

Fortunately, I don't watch TVB much at all. I probably watch one or two series per year MAX. I don't mean to hate on TVB, but every script is nearly the same (inevitable love triangle, rushed endings, ridiculous scenes to make the story more convenient and viable, etc.) with some minor differences.

@bengstar: Glad someone agrees.

 

well it is a little weird with the relationships in all but that they all are conveniently not related by blood. but for raymond and linda i thinks its more like childhood sweethearts not really a sibling relationship as it seems that they did not really keep in contact for many years until the start of the series. i personally think that the reason everyone is offended or just disturbed is because of culture shock. many of us who are commenting were rasied up overseas, well thats what im assuming, so we are disgusted by the concept of it

 

its just part of the azn culture...
if its ok for cousins to be together... wats wrong with non-blood-related ??

wouldn't u think cousins is worse?

what abt all these stuff these days abt all these god bro/sis stuff
theres like no-relation watsoever there... but then wat happens later on if they date? is that incest too?

if u look back at example at raymond with linda, they were kinda "together" before their parents hooked up... so wat if they got 2gether first? then wat...

end of day, its all up to how "loosely" the word "incest" is defined
if u consider "family"... then wat about "extended family"
its still part of family...

 

That's what I have been saying, either the writers were drunk or lazy. Although there might have been some good acting in the series, the script is total garbage right now. 1 borderline "incestuous" relationship in the series is bad already, but they have to put in 4. For a series promoting some family values, they totally threw out that with the relationship.

I know some people might be up in arms, but I have to say it, this is by far the most overrated series this year.

 

lol it happens more often in the older dramas anyways, so it depends on how long have you watched tvb.

@zero_c , lol i heard one person saying that it's because that they are in lack of good actors so they have to force relationships on one another even though the characters are related and they use the excuse of "not blood related." lol they don't realize that some things are just deeper than blood like "siblings" who basically were raised as siblings lol. the writers were just dumb, they should've found more people or make them unrelated.

 

I think you all should let this issue go and just ENJOY the drama. It's entertainment, for goodness sakes! It's not telling YOU to go and date a cousin. This is freakin' television. It would be impossible for TVB to accomodate separate families for each individual so that they can date on what you all think is a socially acceptable level. Like others have stated, this is a rather normal occurence with TVB dramas. Every culture has its own incest taboos. What may seem incestuous to you may not be for others. If it bothers you that much, stop watching it.

 

For a series that is suppose to be promoting family values and ethics, its kind of hypocrisy to promote incest.

 

Well, its not like I don't enjoy the series, it's just that while watching it, I suddenly felt a bit weird due to all the actors falling for each other. Don't get me wrong, I feel so engaged with the story - as I love stories that have angles on family and money...

And it so happened I stumbled across the forum, so I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth. What's the point of having a forum if we're not allowed to debate a bit eh?

 

@zeewee: this is the discussion forums, why should this issue be ignored? Contrarily to what you said, if you don't like to discuss about the ongoing issues/topics on this series, why don't you just go to some other forums to praise how good this series is? In regards to "TVB accomodating separate families for each individual", I wished TVB would experiment with one series and make it so there WOULD NOT be any relationships at all. It just makes the series look foolish when they force relationships to happen, like in Moonlight Resonance.

@zero_c: I wouldn't say it is overrated, but rather declining in entertainment. If you rate it in a "TVB scale," I would say it's decent, compared to most other TVB garbage out there (like Your Class or Mine). Though, I have to admit, the series is at midpoint right now and it's not getting any better. Instead of showcasing more family feud, they're bringing out the shitty relationship/incest stuff.

@reno: god brother/sisters are just really close friends, with no family ties whatsoever, so how are you relating that to incest? Unlike Raymond and Linda, as I said before, both their parents are married to one another, thus making them STEPbrother/sisters. Ha Yu and Michelle Yim has almost been together for as long as Raymond liked Linda, so I don't see how they can be together "before their parents hooked up." Plus, they were like what, 10 years old at the time? You suggesting they were already " kindatogether" at that age? In my opinion, they exchanged letters and had a very close bond, but were never together.

@giga: as I already said in my reply to reno above, Raymond and Linda are childhood friends, but they've been stepbrother/sister for as long as they been friends, almost.

 

RSX: So I can't read/post in this thread because I don't agree with you on this whole "incest" issue? I'm just trying to offer another perspective here to all these people saying that these "incestuous" relationships are nasty, gross, or unacceptable. You can't even accept or respect the fact that some people don't find it as offensive as you. It seems as if this issue bothers you a lot, which was why I suggested you not watch MR anymore.


Zero_c: I think this series is more about ratings and money than trying to teach people a lesson about family. This isn't A Kindred Spirit.

 

Raymond and Linda are only stepbro/sis in name, they had a very close relationship when they were young teens (pretty much like lovers) even if their parents got married, that doesn't mean they can't hook up. Throughout the serie when they are adults, you can see both but mainly Linda trying to avoid that kind of relationship or let it get that far. They also know that they are not related by blood so it's not totally incest maybe just in name.

For Mose and Kate, from traditional stand point, mom side of the family is considered ok, still a bit taboo but acceptable in many cultures. It's not like they have a close relationship since childhood. We found out they are not related by blood so it's ok now but the way the plot unfolded wasn't really well planned/written depending on what you think. It just had so many twists and turns around some taboo subjects with incest. Some people would think there are some deeper meaning than what's on plain view. How do society view this subject, is it ok if this situation is different and what about if it's this way?

Mose and Tavia are not blood related, Tavia was adopted, they know that from the start, it's no surprise. They may all have a bro and sis relationship but aback of their minds, they aren't really blood related bro/sis. But compared to the other 2 taboo stories, this one is a bit harder to swallow since, they really do have that close bro/sis relationship since youth even if they didn't see each other as much after the divorced. That close bond of treating one another as bro and sis is hard to change in ones mind, I would think.

When it comes to incest, it's a very old taboo subject to talk about, that's why it's interesting to see it in dramas from time to time. Incest is done by many animals as well, it's just that incest is not good for the species in the long run. You may consider these stories in MR as incest or it may not but it's a good topic to talk about. Overall, it really all depends on you own belief system.

 

Incest as a whole might be a taboo, but certain incest is just illegal, like brother and sister. The chances of the babies that comes from inbreeding being physically and mentally disabled are about 50%.

 

You're offering another perspective? More like you're telling those that are disgusted by the incest to NOT watch MR. We're here merely discussing the issue and you barge in with "drop this topic! it's only television, which is entertainment! why so serious? stop watching MR if it disgusts you!" That's basically saying "screw your incest topic, if you don't like it, shut yo' mouth and find something better to do." And I didn't tell you that you can't post here, I was suggesting that if you don't want to see members here post opposing views on the series, then you should find a forums that only allow praising of the series.

@eviltofu: that's what I'm saying, Raymond and Linda are stepbro/sis by name and that should be enough to flag signs of incest. However, if and when Ha Yu and Michelle Yim divorces, there shouldn't be any issue. It's the fact that the two have been married for so long that makes Raymond+Linda a weird couple, if they get together that is.

As for Moses and Kate, I understand that they've not known each their whole lives, BUT.. they met each other knowing fully that they were cousins (before they found out Susanna Kwan was not the sister of Lee Si Kei). That and Susanna Kwan is still living and interacting with the family as if she's still the sister (she still calls the old dude her father and Lee Si Kei her sister), which kinda adds to the awkwardness of Moses and Kate being together, methinks.

P.S. For zeewee's sake, I want to say that I am not at all offended or disturbed by this incest issue, I'm ONLY offering my take and opinion on the issue. Please don't be like "if you think it's nasty, go away." Sheesh.