yes of course, for a Christian im not married yet but i am a virgin, most consider me 'old school' in that respect, shame many consider it a thing to be ashamed of unfortunately (in the west). (in case this leads to a "does your wife have to be a virgin" question, then the answer is yes, then if it leads on to a "what if you love her" etc etc, then i will cross that bridge when i reach it hehe
So, you've finally found the quote button that includes the name of the quoted person and even make the effort to short our names...wow. And this is called hypocrisy.
Initials would be the first letter of a name, in my case, a T and a T only. (Taxloss is 1 word) If you type 'Tax' it's an abbrevation of my name. It's ok though, you may short my name, just wanted to get some facts straight. If you know the definition of hypocrisy you will know why I think that.
i used the wrong word, i stand corrected. oh ok well, it looks like this aint gona go any further so cya all babyrain, ill call you babyrain from now on.
yes, that's correct? i hadn't really thought about that before. i'm not sure about other people but as far as i know those who were talked about in the Bible (i know you see it as a sketchy source so you can take this or totally disregard it) were married as in had a covenant before God. what does that mean? (i don't know the exact meaning myself but will try to explain FMU - from my understanding) these people promised before God (much like today) to be good husbands/wives. i also think though (FMU) that even when people did pick their partners and live together, it was something serious. there may have not been a paper, but the entire town knew about it and if one was unfaithful, the entire town would be in an uproar. in that sense, the covanent was upheld by the people who witnessed it (so the people in the town who knew who lived together). from what i just explained, i don't think they would be fornicating? because it's a covanent nonetheless? yep, she probably didn't have any "marriage papers". (be prepared to disagree) but as the Bible says, she conceived Jesus through the Holy Spirit (don't ask me how that's done. i really don't know) and not by man. therfore, that's not a sin because as someone said before (i'm sorry i don't have an exact quote and name but i recall someone saying something like this God is holy therefore no sin can come from Him. to others (who didn't know Mary conceived through the Holy Spirit) of course it looked like she committed a major sin. unmarried with a big bulge. *gasp* what was important though was the fact that she just conceived. not through sex so it cannot be considered a sin if there was no sex? [i don't know the nitty gritty] i'm glad you're so optimistic about love. lol. whenever someone says that, i always ask, "so how long does that love last?" i agree about the marriage paper having to do with legal rights, etc. (i realize i am sounding likea major hypocrite following what i just said about the covenant & marriage papers but BR having brought up this point, can i tweak my previous statement a bit? a he. he. i'm not a theology major nor do i know everything in the world. woops. sorry) the piece of paper itself probably doesn't (IMO - not strictly Christian values but i am telling you my opinion influenced by Christian values) make sex with your married partner morally right. you know the part in marriages where it says "before God.. blah blah blah or something like that" and then (well, as far as i know or as far as i've seen in all the ceremonies i've been to) both parties agree to cherish and care, blah blah blah for each other (and this is all done "before God") so the covenant made before God is what makes "sex morally right with your married partner" (this doesn't quite make sense to me either so could you expand on your statement "No way does it mean that it ensures you are morally right by having sex with your married partner"?) i have Q: so how can you be immoral in having sex with your married partner? rape itself is WRONG WRONG WRONG. no matter who does it to who. so the guy should be reported and hauled to jail. if the woman said "no" then she said "NO". i guess the guy's brain is too slow to process that. haha no offense to you guys out there who don't rape random people. would be appreciated. excuse my long-windedness. it's all hiake's fault
I thought someone in previous pages made a point about the Christian God being non-existent. The contradiction that the Christian God is both omnipotent and omni-benevolent, yet evil exists in our world.
Now someone blames on me :( But anyways, loving all these marriage/sex discussions. My question (not sure if someone already asked, but I looked and don't think so, correct me if I just reiterated your question): Did marriage ceremony (or the concept of marriage) always existed since the beginning of time? If not, then how did human beings procreate back before marriage ceremony (or marriage in general)? They are all commiting a collective sin? -huh
one being a virgin isnt shameful, but one wanting to be a virgin (no prearital sex) AND wanting a virgin wife = over the top... i bid you good luck on your journey to find the virgin wife.
I think it's just unfair if one who is not a virgin WANTS a virgin wife... But oh well... Those who seek shall find = may good fortune and God's blessing be with you -innocent2
yeah i know wat you mean but im sure there are plenty Christian girls out there who are like minded. that's not about me is it, cus i said i was , but yeah wat u said is very true. (AHHH 14 hours later i get what u mean )
Well you see the thing is, how sure are you there was even a marriage 'ceremony' like that? I don't think churches existed in those times. How are they going to declare their love to God and publicly? The so-called covenant, we won't even know if it existed... Besides, the Bible itself is silent on this 'need' for a marriage covenant thingy right? Ok, sorry, because I am not really familiar with the Jesus story -sweat How is it that I am suddenly optimistic about love? lol What I said was, "IMO, as long as there is love presence in a relationship and you don't have sex with just any random fella, you are not immoral. Marriage is just signing a piece of paper to ensure you are legally protected and giving you an assurance in the legal sense. No way does it mean that it ensures you are morally right by having sex with your married partner. " That in itself, doesn't mean I am optimistic about love. Just that I believe it's not immoral to have sex with someone you love. And if you ask me, how long does that love last, i can ask you how long a marriage would last? You don't know the answer to that... Ok, you know why I say it's not immoral to have sex when you two love each other, and not because you justify it based on marriage or covenant before God? It's simple. Because two people can easily get married, without love presence, and they can still have that so-called covenant before a God to say that they will love and cherish each other. But what if the husband forces the wife to commit a sexual act when the wife is not willing to? That brings to the question of whether you can call that as raping and a immoral act, because after all, they DID take the covenant before God. Taking the covenant before God doesn't mean you are guaranteed to continue loving each other, and without love presence, when you are having sex, isn't that the same as adultery or fornicating? Because the sex is just based purely on LUST, and not LOVE. That's why I made the statement, "No way does it mean that it ensures you are morally right by having sex with your married partner" because, to me, if you force yourself on someone, it's NOT morally right, whether or not you are married or not married. Exactly, since you said rape itself is wrong, and since rape happens even in marriage, therefore, even being married or having taken that marriage covenant before God doesn't make it valid and doesn't guarantee that you are morally right. Thus, I made my point.
i'm sorry i don't know an answer to that because i barely know customs and such from Jesus' time and haven't exactly studied the culture prevalent in that time period so i don't know. hehe. -sweat i don't actually study the Bible in depth either and admit, i'm still on my way to reading the entire Bible so i don't have an answer to this either. although, I PROMISE, i will get back to you on this when i ask others you can quote me on this, i'm not trying to dodge the question i just.. don't know. you're right, i don't know how long marriages last. i do hope though that people who believe in God (both parties) work on the marriage extra hard and not consider divorce as even an option. i think there are verses on marriage/divorce also but again, i don't know. sorry -sweat i feel somewhat stupid or inadequate. i really wish i could answer all these questions but i just don't know.. like i said before, if the woman said "no" then it's "no". forced sex is called RAPE. how does the covenant before God fit into all of this? hehe. clarify? if i think what you mean then you're saying that as long as people take a covenant in the eyes of God everything they do is within moral bounds and cannot be called immoral? but i'm not sure what you mean.. i don't know -sweat will definitely get back to you on that. i understand your point and agree that rape does happen in marriage and no, even though you make a covenant before God, that does not make rape morally correct. when you mentioned sex in marriage being immoral (i think this is a correct paraphrase; my apologies if it is wrong) i assumed it was consensual and did not think of rape. point taken i feel like there's this big chunk of answer that i missed and i promise i will get back to you on that. (i don't know how long though, sorry!) any other questions i hope i have the answer to? hehe. aaand i'm leaving in about a week for a trip and will not be back for quite a while so i hope you can get wind to come and answer these questions as well.. these big fat chunks of -huh i'm missing. haha. @hiake: i'm not blaming anything on you! i was just joking. i didn't get anything from you i'm naturally like that. -rockon i appreciate this discussion we're having. thanks for keeping your cool. (i hope that didn't sound offensive in any way)
No problem, CNB. Appreciate your time and effort there.. At least, you acknowledge that you don't know, and you are honest that way. I prefer that, rather than coming up with some crap of an answer which is irrelevant/unrelated to the question or an unreasonable 'excuse' I thought that's what you are saying... Because Christians condemn sex before/without marriage as adultery and a sin, that's why I am trying to highlight to you that even if you have sex in a marriage, doesn't mean that it is within moral bounds or morally right (as I have highlighted the cases of rape/no love existing in the marriage except for lust). So basically, I believe that marriage is not a pre-requirement to have 'morally right' sex (lol excuse my term there) but instead, love is. Haha, take ur time, CNB. No worries.. Aww, and do enjoy your trip and have a great time! -lol Don't forget to miss your buddies here in PA It's so easy to keep your cool and sanity in a well-reasoned discussion. -lol At least you try to reason it out, rather than quote a bible paragraph and nothing else.. (unlike some duo) Appreciate it.
