I have no problems with people subdividing themselves from who they are if that's what they're truly doing. Whether you're Shanghainese or Cantonese, one thing is for sure you are still Chinese the ethnicity. Maybe my statement was too general to describe my true meaning. My beef with these identifications is that more likely than not it comes with prejudice within the same ethnicity and that is what ticks me off.
why can't we all just get along? I'm cantonese, ABC, but I actually took a year of mandarin in college and I like it...I mean, why can't we be bilingual-you know be able to speak cantonese and mandarin? though it's true the official language of china is mandarin.....
Now that's what I'm looking for...an explanation! And yes, you needed to back up your statement and explain it because until you did, it was perplexing to me how "mandos" and "cantos" are not Chinese by your definition. No, I never made the point that either Mandarin or Cantonese speakers are not Chinese. I know they are both Chinese dialects and I refer to them as such. I think when most people catagorize Chinese as "mandos" & "cantos" they are actually referencing the culture that each of these groups are usually identified with. That is, Cantonese being identified with industrialism, capital economy & more western oriented culture versus Mandarin speakers who are more associated with communist politics & socialistic type thinking. Before anyone flames me, yes, not all Mandarin speakers are from Mainland China and not all Cantonese speakers are from Hong Kong, but this is just how many people like to broadly catagorize them, regardless of its accuracy.
I agree, people like to catagorize & subdivide themselves into smaller and smaller units because they feel proud of who they are, and many times dislike people who are not like them. So practically, these subdivisions come in handy because they can use it to refer to people they don't associate with or like. Unfortunately, that's a way of life. As long as it doesn't get in the way of living, I say let it be. Every single person in the world is prejudice, racist, or a bigot in some way. It's just a matter of how strongly they feel that way, and whether they let it lead their lives.
one word.... dem mandos is trippin'.... err is that 4?? no wait... -lol you know what really make me mad tho... some Toisan mf... actually said I wasn't Chinese just because I speaka better english... sure he was trying to be funny... but that mf.. all Toisan'd out n everything and he's gonna try to cap on me... get outta here...
yeah its happened to me since all these mandarins seems to out cast you like a black sheep. well dpends on area i guess
if its an issue of predjudice, then we all need to remember, just because we are all yellow skinned, it doesnt mean there wont be tribal/regional predjucies. at the end, being an ethnic minrity then we all look for unity and to try to fit in, but unfortunately for all ethnic groups, this seems to be the only time. back in the 'motherland' we just revert back to the other predjudices
learn mandarin and then say a few foul words to them mixed with cantonese. That would shut 'em up.....oh and some jap words.... it would make things more interesting...hehe >
Again, I can safely say that just as there is no such thing as "Cantonese/Mandarin people," there is also no such thing as "Cantonese" or "Mandarin" culture. However, it is safe to point out the differences between North and Southern Chinese regions. Also, "Cantonese" being associated with industrialism and "more western oriented culture" is flat out wrong. Guangdong was largely used as an "experimental" ground for economic reform since the Qing Dynasty up until the opening up of China in the 80s, so as to not threaten the stability of the entire nation should something happen in the far south. The most prominent example you would probably point out to prove your point would be Hong Kong SAR. However, keep in mind that Shanghai during early 20th century was MUCH more advanced than Hong Kong - or any other city in Asia and was comparable with most European cities at the time (hence the nickname "Paris of the East"). After the founding of the People's Republic of China, countless businessmen and influential figures from Shanghai relocated to Hong Kong. Much of HK's development owes to the absence of a rival on the Mainland. Let's not even go into "Communism" in China...I'll just put it this way, if China were truly communist, things would not be the way they are today. Edit: "Cantonese culture" is arguable, but there certainly is no such thing as "Mandarin culture." As well, is being "more western oriented culture" supposed to be a good thing? The great Chinese culture is infinitely superior to the barbarian way of life!!! LOL im spending too much time on this thread, im out =P.
I used to think that chinese was a language that included all the dialect such as Cantonese, Mandarin, chu chow, fuk kin, tao shan....etc.. But l later hear people refering chinese to Mandarin only, Cantonese is Chinese too. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I think Mandarin always sounds like the person is about to spit or something in their throat when they're talking.
That's only your opinion. Depending on where you are, someone who is Cantonese is very different from someone who speaks Mandarin in terms of the way they act, their beliefs, and the traditions they practice. But yes, there are some people who divide the two groups geographically between North and Southern China. However, MY definition of Cantonese people include people from Hong Kong, Singapore, and 華橋 Cantonese who settled around the world in the 19th & early 20th centuries. My definition of Mandarin culture is that which is associated with mainlanders, and recent mainlander immigrants around the world (including those in Southern China who also speak Cantonese). Taiwanese are most similar to my idea of what Cantonese culture is, except for the fact that they speak Mandarin. So whether you agree or not, like it or not, that's MY way of catagorizing Chinese people. No, you are wrong. Guangdong for the most part was never part of any experimental ground for economic reform until the past couple decades. However, people from Guangdong WERE the first people from China to widely disperse themselves & explore & settle across the globe. Hence, the many Chinatowns in different countries and widespread Cantonese 華橋. Shanghai was NEVER technologically more advanced than Hong Kong. It may have been the most popular trading port with more people there in the early 20th century than Hong Kong. However technologically, Hong Kong's infrastructure has always been much more advanced than Shanghai. Until the recent 20 years, Shanghai didn't even have a subway for crying out loud. And NO, most people in Hong Kong were NOT decendents of Shanghai businessmen who migrated south. The majority of Hong Kong people were from the Hakka clan who lived there since the early Ching dynasty with an influx of people from the 4 major Canton counties (四邑)of 番禺, 台山, 開平, and 恩平 along with people from 江門(新會) later on during that dynasty. Hong Kong was built by the blood and sweat of these people with western technology & knowledge from Britain. Hong Kong's success did not occur from the lack of rivals in the Mainland, it was derived from western technology & superior economical growth due to it's free port status. The mainland was no competition because it was still struggling to survive & get on it's feet after WWII. Economically, China is not communist anymore because it recognized early on that communism was inconducive for trade. In fact, it's current day economy is almost a copy cat of western trade practices, ie capitalism. However, politically & socially, China is still communist (supressing free speech in newspaper [not being able to criticize Chinese national leaders], censoring web sites with political information or information not "in alignment" with national beliefs. "National run" corporations and social medicine are some other examples. So don't tell me China is not communist behind that hypocritical facade of capitalist economy. Are you kidding me? Where do you live? How are you able to have free speech to argue with me? What kinds of technology do you use (cell phone, mp3, computer)? What kind of a car do you drive? You think all these things would have been possible without western technology? I thank the western world for my lively comforts, and it is why I owe part of my allegience to the western country I live in. As to culture, Chinese USED to be considered a people of courtesy. These days, I see Chinese people shouting loudly in public, spitting, pushing each other in crowded streets, a lack of chivalry on the men's part. Other than excellent food & a rich history, current day mainland born Chinese disgust me for the most part with few exceptions.
Apparently, you have very little knowledge about Chinese history, it's astounding to see you going on about non-sense. Alright, let me break this down for you. Just because it is YOUR definition of what is "North" and what is "South" China does NOT necessarily make it so. What is widely perceived in China (and again, I must emphasize this, this is NOT my idea of North/South China, it is simply fact) for the separation between the North and South is the division of the two at Chang Jiang (Yangtze River) and Huai He. This is the basis in which divides the North and South. This also serves as the basis for the distinction between Mandarin speaking populations in the North and the various other local dialects in the South. Not only that, the only people that can be considered "Cantonese" is people from Guangdong province, or from Macau or Hong Kong SAR. Singapore does not apply as Chinese Singaporeans are now taught mostly in Mandarin - which also happens to one of its national languages. As well, Hua Qiao does not only include "Cantonese," its a term that encompasses ALL so-called "Overseas Chinese." All in all, most "Cantonese" are part of the majority - which is Hanzu Ren (Han Chinese). There is no government or international recognition of a so-called "Cantonese" people as a separate entity from the Han. Unless of course, you want to be called by "Nan Man" again... Secondly, you seem to equate Cantonese as being "Southern" Chinese. This is another fallacy on your behalf. It is wrong. As I indicated before, speakers of Wu are also "Southerners" and have a greater number of speakers than Cantonese. This does not even include the vast majority of "Southerners" located inland of the country. Thirdly, Taiwan province has barely anything to do with "Cantonese Culture." Han Chinese from Taiwan constitute roughly 84% percent of the population, while the Kejia makes up the 14%, which leaves 2% for the native aborigine. Most of the Taiwanese came from Fujian province across the strait, who themselves came from further north from Henan province - which is simply too far from Guangdong to even suggest they are simply "Cantonese" who speak Mandarin. Yes, Guangdong WAS an experimental ground for economic reform. Most of foreigners (Europeans) were forced by the Imperial Qing government to conduct trade in the far south. This was why the British was able to acquire its concession of HK while the Portugese, Macau. You must be shitting me when you said "Shanghai was NEVER technologically superior to Hong Kong." That is utter bullshit. I already indicated clearly before that Shanghai USED to be the most advanced city in Asia and more than most European cities during the 19th and early 20th century BEFORE the founding of the People's Republic of China. In fact, Shanghai during the 19th/early 20th century used to be the third largest trading port in the world after New York and London. Hong Kong's economy was shit in the first few decades since the founding of the People's Republic of China. At that time, it was simply a labor pool full of coolies. This was ONLY reversed when the KMT lost control of the Mainland, which subsequently, drove Shanghai businessmen into Hong Kong. The British had a Laissez-affair system, which gave Hong Kong very few restrictions in conducting business. Oh please, the British barely did jack shit to improve Hong Kong, given it's geographic proximity towards the Mainland, it was not an ideal place to have a prosperous metropolis. Also, NO WHERE did I EVER suggest that Hong Kong people DESCENDED from Shanghai businessmen. I simply stated that Hong Kong's economic success owes much to these Shanghai businessmen. You're simply too ignorant of China's political system to even comment on it. I am not stating there aren't flaws within the system, however, your criticism is simply a repeat of the bullshit you see on CNN or FOX News. China is hardly "Communist" at all. And "Communism" as a political ideology has NOTHING to do with "censorship" or "freedom of speech." Not being able to criticize leaders? Have any relatives in Shanghai, Beijing, etc.? No? No wonder. Censorship? Learn this word: Proxy. China today hardly resembles that of its supposedly Marxist-Leninist ideology. Again with the generalizations of "Mainlanders." Then again, I'm assuming the only "Mainlanders" you've probably met are actually Southerners themselves. How ironic. I feel so sorry for you. Apparently, you are simply too blind to notice the difference between what is "Modern" and what is "Western." You equate "Western values" with "freedom of speech" and "mp3s/cars/etc." and whatnot. It is really sad to see you spilling out your ignorance in front of a person who's experienced both worlds. Oh yeah, before you come up with another comment that might embarrass yourself, I'd like to remind you that yes, I can in fact, access this website from China and debate with you. Actually, I have accessed this website a few times while I was in Shanghai this summer. Dig your head out of the sand and see the surf. There's a whole new world out there.
ok, i saw this topic and thought that i might as well put in my two cents...to me canto is an easier language (mando is like the hardest thing ever to learn >.<), but of course i used to live in hk so i have my own biases. i hate people who automatically assume that mando is the only true chinese language...i also dislike other chinese people who automatically write me off because i don't speak mando. i've actually had someone who asked me if i spoke chinese before and when i replied yes, they started to speaking to me in mando, i told them i didn't speak mando and guess what... he turns around and stops speaking to me...then later whenever i try to speak to him (in a common language of course), HE IGNORES ME...since then i've had the strongest bias against mando speaking people its unbelievable
erive never come across that, everyone in my school speaks canto, so no one says anything, if it really bothers u, slap the next person who says it! i mean its like saying oh, wales is not part of britain... -.-
well.. actually, cantonese is just another dialect within the chinese language. we have over 50 dialects, if mandarin people call cantonese people not real chinese, then they might as well call all the other dialects not chinese, and start a big argument. -_-
man..then they dont know what real chinese is...mandarin and cantonese are both considered chinese and all those other dilects..canto n mando are only 2 of the many different chinese dilects there are...
HELLA FREAKING BRING THAT *BEEP* TO HONG KONG AND THAT *BEEP* CAN GET BASHED!! HONKY PPL BASH THE HELLA OUT THE *BEEP* !!! im canto and IT IS REAL CHINESE, frags, GO CANTO PPL!
