I personally dnt have a strong view in this subject matter, as this is the way of life in many countries - fighting to be independent and free. Wat pisses me off is the pple not from that world, ie. western countries, esp. famous pple like actors etc. given speeches of how the olympics shd be boycotted etc in favour for tibet etc. thinking they are doing a good thing. How about just letting china get on with the olympics games, after all, isnt it 1 step further into China becoming more open to the rest of the world which in turn benefit the population in China - this 'war' with tibet isnt the be all and end all of china, shdnt the rest of the world realise there are other pple living in china. Boycotting and encouraging ruining the olympics by these so called know-it-all famous pple is only gona cause china to shut out everyone again - how is this gona help other populations in China that isnt involved in this tibeten war?!
so ur trying to say that by letting Tibet go all of this will go away. perhaps i don't have that much history knowledge but by letting Tibet go, I don't see how they are gonna benefit from this in terms of economy and at the end of the day China is not gonna let Tibet go. also, ato ur comment about factory slaves, well where do we start, isn't that caused by multinational companies who give so little money and expect the return who are based in USA, the country who are creating nuclear weapons but don't want other countries to do so and a country who has quite obviously destroyed Iraq whilst saying that they were doing it to stop weapons of mass destruction only to find that there weren't any. at least China isn't bombing and destroying countries altogether. tbh, politics is always gonna have ppl who disagree anyway and there will always be disputes.
i think tibet should STFU already, i dont really feel like stating any arguments or argue with anyone but seriously tibet isnt going to be independent so they should just STFU.......dis topic has been getting on my nerves lately
Excuse me, I have not fallen for the Communist propaganda. In fact, it seems that you Khaotic have fallen for Western Media propaganda. You see, when the Americans somehow "lend" their voice to a cause, it's usually because they have a vested interest in something. In this case, they are worried about China gaining power and becoming the superpower nation, a title that the US has trouble letting go of. Khaotic, it is important to understand that yes, that it is important to make an educated decision about this. It is important that the truth does come out, and most importantly not have the realities of the situtation be distorted by Western Propaganda. The west has never liked China, especially since it is a communist goverment. I'm not saying that I like communism, but this is becoming more of a democratic communism -- and not the Mao communism that many people still associate China with. I leave you all with this thought though. As history shows -- especially in terms of the Bush Government, any time that the U.S. Government gets involved, they're usually backing the wrong side or leads to escalation of any situation. Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Pakistan, Palaestine, Israel...
China isn't exacly pouring money into Tibet. China don't bomb Tibet but they do hinder development(s) that would benefit the country but not china.
You know, the United States, Bush, et al, can Nuke Iraq, murder babies in Africa, sell poison to children in Asia, or whatever nastiness du jour that Cheney can come up with... BUT none of it will mitigate the fact that China is killing Tibetans and have been considered by Tibetans to be an enemy occupation force. So, say if the Chinese does all the above Nastiness, does it then morally allow the US or Russians to go and take over Mexico? Or just imagine if a US politician is asked about US troops killing civilians in Iraq, and he starts up by talking about Chinese killing of Tibetans; what would people think? That he's dodging the issue by talking about something that clearly had nothing to do with the other. So when people are asking about Tibet (as in the original question) please stick to the topic. If someone is interested in talking about another country doing something similar on the opposite side of the world, start another thread. That said, many here have stated that they just want China to be able to host the Olympics and not be politically hassled over it. China wants recognition that it is finally becoming a world class player. Well, it then needs to pay world class dues, which entails a much higher level of scrutiny and political acumen. The BS type of politics that plays at home won't play abroad, that is, it can easiliy silence internal critics, but not so foreign ones. China has to learn to play the game a lot slicker than it has so far. These secret police beatings and blunt scapels don't work on everything. And is Tibet ever going to be "free?" I don't think so, not any more so than any of a myriad of history's conquered peoples. However, if you're going to beat your wife and adopted kids, do so in the privacy of your own home and not publicly on the world stage because people WILL talk. Pay them off, grease their palms, whatever to ease the pain of your raping them and their land. Even with the new rail line going into Tibet from China proper, there aren't yet enough Han Chinese moving in to overwhelm the area with enough Pro Chinese opinions (maybe in another 20 years) to effectively dilute and drown out the Tibetan stance. So for now, expect Tibetans to publicly bad mouth China in front of news cameras, and hope that none of them are smart enough to get in touch with Bin Laden et al. Imagine a nuke dirty bomb going off in Shanghai or an Air China flight crashing into the Forbidden City? Not that I'm wishing for either to happen, but if it did, then China can celebrate that it has become just as hated as the United States. Ralph
They really should just go with the "one country, two systems" thing, Special Administrative Region. That Hong kong got. Diplomatic stuff & military defence is handled by mainland china but they get to establish their own laws etc. At least then China could isolate the country from the world and let the Tibetans to their thing inside that "Bubble"
One question. What do you guys think will happen to Tibet's economy once they are free? Also, if China does free tibet what will others start doing?
I would advise everyone to be very careful, you can;t trust media at, both Chinese and Western media. I'm likely to trust western media the LEAST because they have always hated Chinese people
The question asked about what would a free Tibet do if... Let's spin the thing around and ask "why does China want to hold onto Tibet so badly?" instead. It ain't about prayer rugs or Kodak moments. Tibet has mineral resources, lots. And if tapped into properly, it would yield plenty. It is suspected to have the world's highest reserve of Lithium, with copper reserves that would qualify it as the second largest in China. It also boast reserves of Boron, Arsenic, and many other minerals sought by the metallurgy industries. Further, it holds an estimated 80 million kilowatt exploitable hydroelectric capacity alone, without even mentioning its huge geothermal and wind resources. And if that ain't enough, it is also rich with water in the form of melting glaciers. Oh, and BTW, it is also suspected of holding huge and untapped oil reserves. To put it simply, a 12 year old kid with a fistfull of dollars just walked into a street gang. No way is he going to walk away unscathed. This is otherwise known as a robbery in progress. The only way that China would ever give Tibet its "independence" is after the rape is complete, that is, after all valuable resources or commodities have been spent or exhausted, and China would actually have to support the people living there (then you'll see how fast they get dumped). Ralph
kenshi summaries what i want to say in one sentence . BBC is the least trusted website. i have noticed that they only cover news that criticize chinese and never cover anything good about china. they are way biased than i have previous thought. i dont trust anything without witnessing it myself, especially when it is issues about china.
Is china keeping it up and running? I thought the population in Tibet was mostly farmers that ate what they grow and sells their stuff in their LOCAL market?...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/02/w...970e23bae6b49b&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss See the link above, it is a news article that talks about how the PRC spent more than US$ 4 Billion to build the Tibet - China rail link. You have to ask yourself why in heavens name, when it's all about the Benjamins (money) would any government spend so much on such a remote and backward area in the first place? I mean, what's in it for them? The answer is that Tibet traditionally has been able to stave of a full and complete Chinese takeover because of the huge and almost impassable mountains and plains that separates the two countries. Remember the monumental undertaking with the Alaska Pipeline? US Oil spent roughly US$ 8 Billion to bring Prudhoe crude down to Valdez, but over the years that pipe has returned their investment by well over 150 Billion. So I ask again, why would the PRC spend over 4 Billion US$ to construct such a rail link? It ain't about happy farmers going to market. This rail line will allow millions of Han Chinese to easily migrate into Tibet, and in a generation, the original Tibetans will be diluted down to such a minority population that for all intents and purposes, they will politically cease to matter. More importantly, it will allow the outflow of resource riches that China had been dying to get its hands on for years. And in another part of the world, ie Darfur? Why is China there in the first place? You know it... money to be made. Even if it is at someone elses expense. This is something the Chinese have learned to do exceptionally well like the US multinationals that have gone before them. Ralph
dont trust any western media, they are all anti-Chinese. how long do one go back to establish ones ownship of a "country regions", 1 year, 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years? the fact is that all countries some time in their history conquer lands from inferior nations. now for some facts: since the taking-over of Tibet: the EVIL HANs-Chinese did all these things to all Tibetans: 1. the EVIL HANs-Chinese did reduce the illiteracy rate down to 4.8 percent among young and middle-aged adults 2. the EVIL HANs-Chinese did allow 98.2 percent school-age children to have access to primary education. And for middle school students, the figure has soared from 29.6 percent to 90.7 percent 3. the EVIL HANs-Chinese did Han government allocates 720 million yuan (about 101 million U.S. dollars) annually to subsidize boarding schools in the region's rural and pastoral areas, where the Tibetan students are exempted from education, boarding and living expenses for the nine-year compulsory education. 4. the EVIL HANs-Chinese did Provide Health services with 903 hospitals and 446 clinics, where none existed before. 5. the EVIL HANs-Chinese did causes The life expectancy of Tibetans to reach 67 years, almost double the figure in the 1950s, which was 35.5 years. why do they want the Tibetans to live longer? ALL the Western media recently attempted to link the Lhasa riot to some irrelevant issues to serve their ulterior motives.
I wonder if you would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot? Say, when the Japanese came into HK and forced all the schools to teach Japanese? Even kids who couldn't afford school were forced upon the schools, in effect making them free. Now why would the Japanese do such a thing? They wanted the next generation of Chinese to be less Chinese and more Japanese, thus moving them away from their culture. This is exactly what China is doing to the Tibetans. It wants to subsume their culture where in a few generations, Tibetans would be a forgotten culture. Much like how most Chinese kids growing up abroad are bankrupt in the own culture (and this is with a relatively world wide Chinese influence), China plans for the Tibetan race to be a forgotten race and its language dead. Maybe your sense of worth is a lot less than those in Tibet, but I think that a country should be "bought" with a lot more than a few schools and hospitals. Or are you willing to sell China the same way? I certainly hope not. And note, I never said that the Han Chinese are "evil" (your drama, not mine) but rather that the Beijing government is using Han Chinese in an effort to smother and erode the Tibetan civilization. Ralph
Tibetan are taught/using Chinese Language. thats where all the western people are told. WRONG! all Schools in Tibet use the Tibetan dialect for teaching! although Mandarin is also force upon people, BUT Mandarin is being FORCE UPON all Chinese people, in case, people dont know this----90% of Chinses donot know Mandarin before 1920s. The Communist make it official on 1950s. conquered people have no rights! look at the "Indigeous people" around the Globe/Earth, especially North America. they live in LARGE PRISONS , the English, called them "reserves". They were never taught anything but English.
That's not true actually. You're on the right track but there are subtle differences from your understanding. Firstly, in North America, they're not call "reserves" but "reservations" instead. Technically, these reservations are similar to what the Brits did vis a vis Kowloon - New Territories in terms of village rule. That is, common or federal law would apply for most government concerns (like what constitutes a crime) while village law would apply for civil disputes (like inheritance, marriage etc). I know you're trying to compare and draw similarities between what the American government had done to its indigenous population and what the PRC is trying to do in Tibet, but there's a big problem. The world is a different and much smaller place today. The imperialism and "manifest destiny" that most nations believed once upon a time doesn't fit well with what most would consider politically correct today. Had the PRC conquered Tibet 100 years ago, and flooded that locale with Han Chinese then, most people won't give it a second glance today. But the PRC is trying to do it right now, and THAT is the biggest reason why its such a political headache for it. The world is a very different place today. Likewise, if the US tried to conquer another nation today, it would run into the same problem. Why do you think the US is having so many problems in Iraq despite having a large military presence there? If this were the late 1800's, Iraq would already be an American state. Likewise if the Euro powers that be "found" North America today and tried to colonize it, how far would you really expect them to get? Probably nowhere. Again, what the US got away with more than 100 years ago cannot be so easily done today. The PRC as we know it came into existence in 1949. That's a real stretch to say that it can thus claim ownership to a land that at one time, fought its forebears to a standstill. To enlighten your understanding of history, read about the Long March and what the Tibetans did to Mao's troops; hardly what I would term national solidarity. Again, Tibet is only a part of the PRC today because it has a gun held to its head. If the Tibetans were so "thankful" for Chinese generosity, there wouldn't be any protests. And far from being lemmings for the Dalai Lama, they're expressing their own displeasure for their political powerlessness and Beijing's heavy handedness. Ralph
but tbh ur never gonna pls everybody and protests are always occuring everywhere. for example, the war in Iraq had protests from citizens of its own country yet they still went in when its a supposed democracy that we live in. but anyway Tibet are not gonna be free anytimes which is the purpose of this thread and that is the answer.
You're right in that Tibet isn't going to be free any time soon. However, the purpose of this thread (from what I took of it) was to gather political support for the PRC's position while maligning the Dalai Lama and misrepresenting or revising known history. THAT's the reason why I felt compelled to speak up. Revisionism is dishonesty, no matter which master it tries to serve, and if you subscribe to it, then the truth itself will see its worth diminished or valued as so much propaganda. One of the sad things about how the PRC government uses the Chinese diaspora is to garner support for it amongst Chinese all in the name of ethnic, cultural, or emotional solidarity. In this way, it is very much the same as other countries who use their flag to rally a citizen's sense of patriotism while their leaders themselves betray the ideal of their citizenry. This had been an ongoing problem with the current US administration. China is no different than any other country in this regard. What is really personally galling is the sad realization (to me at least) the ease with which the PRC can to this with Chinese people in general. I had hope that we were a lot smarter than that. Ralph
