have you ever wondered why the western media tend to sympathise the tibetans. its because the 'strong' countries are threatened by China because they are a more economical threat to their own countries. (too my beleif i think there are other things that they might be afraid off) as a leader of a country you dont wanna let a part of your country depart you. because first you will have 'no face' because you are showing the world that you cant handle a minor problem. its funny how the war with tibet has been going on for so long, yet NOW when china get publicity tibet seem to run wild. cmon newsreporters, how come you dont note this? tibet will probably be nothing without china. china invest alot of money to them and they cant even seem to get settled. imagine if they manage life on their own with no1's help. do you really think these other dominate coutries will care to help? of course not. and for a small city with prob no contribution to the world, it will just slowly deteriate since they dont have much to trade and such.
ye that is true to the extent, that the western countries do tend to show all the bad things about china but never the good. funny that is. i must say yesterday the protesters in the UK have certainly not done any favours for the london 2012 olympics. it was funny how the police rugby tackled the protesters down i thought.
Er... did you actually read the rest of the thread? They don't have much to trade and such? Tibet in filthy rich. The PRC doesn't want to "trade" with them, they just want to take what they got. I think what you guys have is "selective" attention. When have you know China to invest a lot of money in anything? Considering that there are many poor regions to spend money on in China itself, why would it construct a 4 billion dollar rail line to Tibet? Because of the potential return. That is, there are literally Trillions (that's a capital T) of US$ worth of oil, mineral, water, thermal and wind energy available in Tibet that has yet to be harvested. They have enough natural resources to be another Kuwait, except that China happens to be next to their border, and China very much intends to rob them blind. That Tibetan rail link is the PRC equivalent of the Alaska pipeline. Nothing to trade, huh? Er... let me ask you a question? When has western media shown anything good about the US? As a matter of fact, western media is just as critical about the US and other western nation as they are about China. Frankly, news media is there to sell news. And what do people want to hear? Good news? Nobody buys good news. The only news that sells is bad news, horrible news, about bad things and bad people. China always claims that the western media is treating it unfairly. But instead of being an apologist for Beijing, maybe you guys can read Asian newspapers too. Most of the time, you'll find that many other people point the finger at Beijing too (well, except for the news sources that are controlled by Beijing that is). So, in essence, bad news sells. And with tainted food, Chinese slaves working in Chinese brick factories, whole towns put under martial law, and police following Chinese dissendents or throwing them in jail; then PLEASE... TELL ME WHAT'S THE GOOD NEWS IN CHINA? Ralph
I read something which I share the same opinions with its just the people who have no affiliation with tibet, but feel suddenly its right for them to go protest to free tibet, disrupt the olympic torch route, etc has it suddenly become "fashionable" to save tibet....
Tibet's been "ruled" by China for the past 40 years? Yeah, right... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE7DF123EF932A35752C1A961948260 Or let's put it this way; China has been lying about the Dalai Lama for at least the last 20 years. Ralph
well im not debating the facts of how long anyone has been ruled for, or who has the right to independence, etc I just dont like how everyone has suddenly jumped on the free tibet train.
What's lost on most people is that this whole round of protests had only started because Tibetans were in the process of commemorating the 1959 uprising (that resulted in the Dalai Lama self imposed exile to India) and PRC police stepped in to stop them. After years of being treated like second class citizens within their own country, Tibetans seem to finally have had enough. They're using all their political muscle to press their point. Which is, they've been trying to get out from under Beijing's yoke for nearly a half a century. With the internet and cellular communications to coordinate protests movements around the world, the Tibetans have certainly learned how to play the game. Not only are they making China look bad (right at a time when its doing its damnedest to try to look good), but they're doing it rather easily. The fact that so many people around the world have "jumped onto the bandwagon" for Tibet against China bespeaks volumes. No matter how hard the PRC tries, its going to find that Tibetan monks can't be so easily painted over and presented as Taliban. And the one thing that China is never good at is soft shoe. Instead of backing down and making themselves seem benevolent, China (bet my bottom dollar) is all about "face" and its going to go in with tanks to kick ass and take names (like its always has done) and then look stupid doing. Sure, the Olympic show is going to go on, but along with a good slice of foreign journalists poking about vis a vis Tibet. Or lets put it this way, China is going to the big O with its dirty laundry hanging out. It may not change the political situation in Tibet. But it certainly is going to embarrass the heck out of the PRC, which from the Tibetan's perspective, is the whole point of the exercise. Ralph
^ Thats the thing for me, im not against the Tibetans, if they feel they need to do this then they should but its those other people who seem to have just joined in and suddenly have so much interest now. I just feel that some people have double standards, why not use the olympics to pressure China with respect to Darfur. Im not trying to make that specific point to Darfur, but to me, it just seems that out of nowhere people who are not actual Tibetans have such a great deal of interest in all of this and to me thats just not right. There are plenty of other world issues but this one suddenly has to be so important
full support on my part for not freeing tibet it belongs in china and if they do free them it's a will seem like china is weak in terms of political power i think that if they come in with more military force then it will be solved and then no more riots on freeing tibet
That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The PRC government is too rigid to do anything else. Right now that Olympic torch has come to represent the Chinese flag. And every place it goes, it is getting spat at, and China can't do damn thing. This is something that the Beijing government is not use to, that is, being powerless in the face of withering public opinion. At home, it can send in troops or police to arrest people. But in foreign lands, it can do nothing but watch and be publicly humiliated in each and every city that the torch passes through. And by sending in more troops, it will confirm what it wishes to deny most (that it is weak) as it will come to be seen as poverty of ideas or lack of political imagination. And like I stated before, the Beijing bosses are too rigid to negotiate themselves out of this political hot potato. I predict that (like you said) they will end this by sending in thousands of troops, have another Tiananmen Square style massacre, and suffer another public opinion black eye and confirm to the public that nothing has changed; that is, Beijing will shoot anyone, kill anything, and run over anybody who tries to get in its way. Inotherwords, China may wear a three piece suit, but its the same monkey, who's a thug. Its going to come across as a boyfriend who beats up on a chick because she wants to break up with him. If you ever read up on the histories of armed insurrection, the things or conditions that get people to pick up guns to attempt to overthrow the government, Tibet is ripe. While many Tibetans are monks who preach peaceful approaches, there are some regular (non religious) Tibetans who are going to be driven to terrorism. Its ironic that the conditions which help found the PRC and gave the communists its start are now the same that they have to deal with. Mao was right, the peasants have more power than most governments think. Why not use the big O for Darfur? But people have (read about Steven Spielberg). People in the west aren't that emotionally connected with the people there as they are with quiet, self effacing, and self sacrificing monks. So monks are an emotional no brainer, they generally get an automatic public opinion pass simply because of who they are. Second, the PRC gov isn't exactly Snow White. It has a huge record of human rights violations against its own people. So when people think of China in the political sense, they consider China to be a bad guy. And like you stated, "people out of nowhere who are not actual Tibetans have such a great deal of interest..." is exactly the point. This is the political weapon that Beijing can do little to protect itself from. Whoever or whatever is politically guiding the Tibetans is a genius. And sure, there are plenty of other world issues that are important, but this one is center stage right now, and it seems to have a captive world audience. Ralph
yo fuk china i dont even know y they are hosting the olympics..their government is wack and when tourist comes they'll prob kidnap some ppl and sell their organs
quality vs quantity ralphrepo wrote so much but what he wrote has no quality in it and probably noone will even read those long posts . quality always win gooooooooo china
Yeah right, Go China, "Quality" (LOL) experts... And as for the comments, Res ipsa loquitor. Well now, hold on there. I agree that the gov in China is whacked, however most people there are good ordinary folks. They don't deserved to be maligned just because of who they're ruled by. Don't forget, China doesn't yet have the freedoms that the west has. The people certainly don't have any say as to who is going to be their leader, you can thank the CCP for that. So love the Chinese, despise the leaders of the CCP. They don't just hurt Tibetans; they've been hurting Chinese since the 1920's. Ralph
lol fuck kdotc for dis respecting CHINA. those remarks are harsh and really unfair now organ harvestign is just good money so dont hate. i dont think they need another Tiananmen Square thing. They should really just set an example and kill their dali lama. Besides his popular non-violent approach is made-up just for a apperance. I swear he is behind it all, since how do so many people come together with out a mastermind of leadership. like in all riots and rallys there is always a leader behind it all and i cannot think of another better example of hidden leader then Dalai Lama. Think about it carefully how these riots have such huge numbers before in the recent ones. It's not just by luck they all decided to do this thing at once and in turn be big enough to bring military action
and who are you to say my post is idiot???? you may want to take a look at yourself in the mirror. ralphrepo, no offense but your posts are as biased as it can get. all you do is make assumptions and accusations about chinese government. china may have human right issues, as do all other countries at some point of their development. the importance thing is that china is making progress in improving its human right and living standards of their people. this is the most important thing and its always been neglected by pro independence. you and most westerns are just being unrealistic expecting china government to go from evil to good in one day. im not going to waste time responding to your posts cuz i heard those accusations hundreds of times from other pro independence already. keep on lying to yourself that those monks are peaceful and that you are fighting for their freedom cuz there is never any freedom in tibet from the very beginning of their history. i can only sit here and laugh at how ignorant those westerns are accussing other of human rights when they are in fact the one that had the darknest history anyone had ever seen. its really funny that those monks acted as terrorists destorying everything and china did what any government would do to bring peace back in order and all westerns are blaming on chinese government for the riot and human right bs. if you dont bring troops in to bring peace back in order then please enlighten me what you would do, mighty monk? its pretty mch like telling US to stop bringing troops to iraq to stop those fightings. oh and by the way, screw CNN and BBC. they are the most unrealiable medias you will ever seen in this world. Chinese media is controlled and western medias are biased so bascially there is no difference between them. by the way i hope those monks dont really believe in the stuffs they read everyday cuz if they do then they should know they are not really monks anymore and buddha wont be happy with their violence.
i think tibet is luck that china has sent its tanks to run over the protesters like they once did..... probably cause of the Olympics lols....
(Warning: Sufferers of Attention Deficit Disorder should avoid attempting to read this post) First off, I never called your post "idiotic," and secondly, under what criteria do you consider my posts "biased?" You're saying that "...all (I) do is make assumptions and accusations about (the) Chinese government." Tell me then, what "assumption" or "accusation" have I made? As for all the things that I have stated in this entire thread? I welcome you to refute them. All the things I've stated can be independently verified or supported by independent sources. As for China's "progress" on human rights? Let me pose this question: if the US and others had not ever, once discussed human rights as an issue with China, would the progress that China has thus far made be: A) Exactly the same progress B) Less progress C) More progress The point I'm making is, IMHO, China would not be anywhere close to the progress that they've made thus far had the US not discussed the human rights issues at all. Further, your statement that China is "evil" and that the US can't expect it to be good in one day is essentially correct. But the US doesn't expect China to be good in just one day, the US and rest of the world knows from past experience with China that it needs to be (figuratively) dragged kicking and screaming with lots of rewards at the end before it would do anything at all. China Inc, is all about money. If you've read up on China over the last 20 years since it has opened itself to western style materialism, you'll understand this. Hence, anything that you want in return from China has to be tied into how much money they can get from it, which was why the US made China promise certain things about human rights before giving them the US most favored nation trade status. Despite this, they've already reneged on many of the things that they've promised to do. But the only way that China is going to make "progress" is by pressure, both internal and external. China can effectively clamp down on internal dissent but has little control over external criticisms. Hence voices outside China can be just as important as those within. All my life, I've hated heavy handed governments, whether in the US or elsewhere. The people who suffer most in China are the Chinese. And as I've always stated, I myself am Chinese, I love China and the Chinese people (who I feel the need to speak up for) but I hate the lying self serving and deceitful communist party that is in control of China. And lest you mistake me for some KMT apologist, I despise them just as much. And no, you don't need to answer (as you already stated). But I'll leave you with this thought; there are many here, who if they took the time to fully understand the issues, would benefit in terms of their world views. Before you (or anyone else) goes blindly jumping up and down "go China" just be aware that you're also rooting for Beijing, their system of control over the Chinese people, and the way they conduct themselves and their politics. This latest foray into Tibet is, in reality, a side show to the greater question of how the PRC and the CCP that runs it functions. We've already seen what had happened in Tiananmen Square. Has anything changed since then? IMHO no. And that's what I find worrisome. You know, if they did this, he would be bigger than Martin Luther King. The FBI had reams of material on King, and they even sent him an anonymous letter suggesting that he commit suicide before they release damaging information on him. But despite being popular, King wasn't anywhere near as big as after he was killed. Then he became a martyr. I'm sure the PRC has thought about this and had weighed the pros and cons politically. From their pespective, he's just a loud mouthed old man right now. If they kill him, or he dies under suspicious circumstances, then he'll be immortal. Ralph
minority in China are treated quite fairly by the current government. all minorities are exempted from the "one-child" policy for one. the problem here is not about China being a democracy or a country with good "human right" records. the problem is China NOW RICH RICH RICH. lets learn from history, shall we: not long ago.... less than 200 years ago, China was a wealthy nation, but militarily weak. The Westerners( mainly English/French/USA) came with OPIUM and their cannons and took large amount of that wealth with them. after squeezed China dry, they began to take large numbers of Chinese people as slaves to the Americas and Caribbeans. and taking pieces of Chinese lands. fast forward 200 years... we are at the same situation again. except, this time around they use the guise of "human rights" to weaken China and hope to again eat-up China's lands and money.
