Do you mean I am asking something which cannot be answered by quoting a mere paragraph from the Bible? No, I still don't get it. Because I would be a hypocrite if I call myself ever-loving and ever-forgiving if I am not able to forgive those who don't believe in me. You claimed that God loves you unconditionally and forgives you unconditonally as long as you 'repent' and believe in him. Well the term UNCONDITIONALLY means just that. There's not supposed to be any CONDITIONS. The Christians' claim of eternal damnation to the non-believers is simply very flawed. How can you use the term 'unconditionally' when God Himself say (according to you) : You must believe in me, or go to Hell. An option between going to Hell, or believe in Him and go to Heaven. Now, who in their right mind would even fuss over such options? It's simple. Everyone would just pick the latter one, because you are giving only two options here, with one BAD outcome, and one GOOD outcome. How can you say that's a choice and free will in God? How can you then, call God loving you unconditonally and FORGIVES you UNCONDITIONALLY when he DOESN'T FORGIVE you if you DON'T believe in him? Ironically, someone in the Christian religion tells me, "Yes, God still loves you after he sent you to Hell". I find that a little too amusing. Now if you were to tell me that God sent the non-believers to Hell and take them back to Heaven if they repented and cried out, "God please save me"... at least, I would not have found it as amusing as the idea that God sent someone to BURN ETERNALLY in Hell and claims that He still loves them. Probably the ideas of 'love' and 'forgive' are different in the Christian sense?
rite. the bible is all about the reason for Jesus Christ. yes, there some parts of the part of the OT that has nothing to do specifically with Jesus Christ; however, in the NT -- all claims and reasonings are made behind the existence and salvation of Jesus Christ. and to a Christian, the whole point of Christianity is Christ. that is why the term miracle is open to debate. however, my point was made to give to the legit claim that Jesus Christ existed and walked on this earth. the evidence is shown throughout in the form of fulfilling prophesies. yes, the claim could be made that prophesies from one generation could be simply explained with the coming of the next generation. however, that is only given under the context that the prophesies made under the rules of current humanistic abilities. What about the prophesies made that were supernatural and not within human capability? what are the chances of them being fulfill? the prophesies made from one generation to the next generation that needed the work of God were indeed fulfilled by God in every way possible. i stumble upon this a few weeks back - i retired from the thread NOT b/c all of my concerns were met, but on the contrary, your explanations didn't do it for me. therefore, i felt like some of question need to be addressed on a more personal understanding and so i went on and is now reading buddhistic scriptures myself.
Im not going to get into it right now but maybe apollon can explain the above better than i can. Unfortunately at judgement you will be either an enemy of God or one of his people. For those in Hell, in God'' sight you will be like Satan, God doesn't love Satan. so God loving you while your in eternal hell aint going to happen. Gods anger is something to be feared, i fear God like i would fear my earthly Father when i was a child, not afraid, but aware of his power and authority and judgement.
That is another amusing thing. Apparently, another Christian whom I just asked the exact question, told me that, "yes God still loves you after he sent you to Hell". Now which is which? So many different interpretations of some really important issues. Even the concept of eternal damnation to all non-believers are debatable among CHRISTIANS themselves. I'll try to get a Christian friend of mine to post later, whom apparently, claimed that the Bible never said such things as All non-believers shall go to Hell. So with quite a HUGE contradictory statement among Christians themselves, I am now confused as to WHOM shall I believe?
Maybe I can get a Christian to explain to you then... Seems that even a Christian found my explanation entirely understandable. (see mfgcortez's post) But, then, I quote my sista
no. i meant that the question need some bibical and theological background before answering it. God has the ability to forgive "unconditonally" with any conditions man-made. From the crime of telling a white lie to mass murdering - He is able to forgive all and love all. that is loving "unconditonally" and forgiving "unconditonally". now, believing in Christ isn't a condition but a choice. it is either you believe or you don't. there isn't a grey area to dwell on. the original intent for Hell wasn't for us, human. it was made for Satan and his minions. however, unfortunately the presence of God is holy and pure. and all those around must be too -- it is either you are holy or you are not. so it is either you are around with God or not (and in this case, not is being in Hell). and we are not holy and pure; so we go to hell. but Jesus Christ gives us the chance to holy and pure, by conquering sin; therefore, placing a "veil" over our bodies, we then allowed to be in the presence of God. now, that brings us back to the point that believing in Christ is a choice. since it is a choice made by us - we can be judged upon it. therefore, giving the brenchmark whether it is right or wrong. which in this case, Christianity is correct.
Believe in what you think it is correct. and the truth will be reveal to you. I am a strong believer in that. if you read the Bible with a open-mind and open-heart, you will see the truth it brings and understand a little better the points master_g and myself are making.
@apollon: Hm, so "Hell" was created for Satan and his horde of demons then..? Would this "hell" be like a prison whereas they wouldn't be able to leave or escape? I did "the dann", so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe BabyRain's comment was one of sarcasm, as in how can you claim to truly love someone when you're purposefully roasting their flesh forever?.. In fact that doesn't make sense at all to any sane person.
UH PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES. Post #204... Now does master_g looks magically as apollon to you??? See who I quoted?!?!?!?!?! NO? Was it YOU? Geez, don't be so overcomed with emotions that you can't read properly here APOLLON. and if you are thinking that the ANOTHER CHRISTIAN refers to YOU; you are dead wrong. Lmao, seems to me you are thinking there's only two Christians around in the entire world... You and Master_G. That's just sad, isn't it?
excuse me. i assume that when you address "another Christian" you were making a reference to me. i'll retract that statement. the only emotion i'm feeling is happiness - b/c i'm able to answer questions (to best of my knowledge) about Christianity which i wasn't able to before. that to me, is the a work of God. i need to get to work and school. therefore, i'll be back in later. buh-bye for now!! -bigsmile
^errrr, you didnt answer mine... T.T my feelings are hurt..lol jk it doesn't matter. Actually, I change my mind... I would like to have my Q answered, if possible.
All my Christianity is biblical, if your Christian friends can prove what they say with scripture then that's fine, if not then your simply listening to their ideas. Then again, if the bible condemns you, you could always say it corrupt or read wrong i guess. I look forward to hearing from your friend, i hope they come with scripture to of course. BUT from what i gather, your friend says you go to eternal hell and God still loves you, that still works out pretty bad for the non-believer either way. or does your friend believe hell is for a time?
I just feel like to throw a question in this thread: If god is forgiveful...why did he created a Hell for Lucifer, the fallen angel ? Couldn't he just forgive him as well? Does this mean this god has a HUGE ego; if you don't believe in him you'll end up in Hell? What kind of mentality is that? In the logic of the believers; didn't god created the mankid? How come some of the humans are criminal, murderous or just handicapped for life? If he's that powerful, couldn't he just have created the perfect humans without any faults? Or repair them? Why wait till they've past away and judge them once they've died? Isn't that just sheer cruelness of god to test people their faith in that way? (with war and genocide) And christianity is just 2000 years old, much younger than other religions in the world, isn't it arrogant to claim christianity is the only right religion? Ok, maybe you guys will say "I've never claimed it is the only right religion", but it often comes across like that if christians says they will pray for me I won't go to hell, trying to convert other people etc.
Apparently, that's NOT what you were thinking. You made a MISTAKE of thinking my post #204 was directed at you, wasn't it? When in fact; I quoted master_g. That's why you said you NEVER said God DOESN'T LOVE you after you go to Hell... Geez, Apollon, I wish you'd just own up to your mistakes sometimes instead of trying to cover up. Does it hurt for you to apologize that you made a mistake of SEEING MASTER_G's post as YOUR OWN? Instead, you created another LIE, which is claiming that you thought the "ANOTHER CHRISTIAN" was you. Now, let us assume that your LATEST STATEMENT is TRUE, then it doesn't make sense?! Cause what I said was, Apparently, another Christian whom I just asked the exact question, told me that, "yes God still loves you after he sent you to Hell". So now, which is which apollon??? You like to dig deeper in your own grave, I realize that. Aren't you Christians NOT supposed to lie? Hmm. It's funny sometimes you accused me of 'manipulating' when you are the culprit here. Seems to me just as hypocritical as the God you portrayed him to be with regards to eternal damnation and the claim of ever-loving and ever-forgiving.
^Whaha, I also did a 'Dann' by skimming posts so I went covering myself as not to be accused of putting things in other people's mouth.
Dann is officially famous for that, ain't he? lol and soon, someone's going to be famous for manipulating words and covering up...
buddy. what we need are answers based on non-biblical information AND knowledge (PROVEN THEORIES) (like i did to yours. and yes. it is COMPLETELY fair considering I answered YOURS WITHOUT references to ANY buddhist scriptures.) again, buddy. im sure that the majority of the population on earth, according to you, are NOT believing in what YOU believe. so you saying the majority of the population of earth, because they dont "see the light" are going to hell? oh wow....
STOP USING THE BIBLE AS YOUR ONLY SUPPORT FFS! EXPLAIN IT USING OTHER MEANS, LIKE I DID WHEN I EXPLAINED A BUDDHIST ASPECT WITHOUT THE USE OF BUDDHIST SCRIPTURES! thank you.
theres really no need for another person to get involved b-rain... see, during that 6 pages when you were gone (dunno if you read all of them?) apollon and master_g have been constantly contradicting themselves. so yea lol
