If you bothered to check the myths section you may have noticed this. "Myth 1: Hitler was not a Christian The entire section on Hitler's Christianity provides ample evidence for his brand of Christianity. The evidence itself destroys any opinions or beliefs about Hitler's alleged apostasy. The evidence shows that: Hitler was born and baptized into Catholicism His Jewish antisemitism came from his Christian background. His early personal notes shows his interest in religion and Biblical views. He believed that the Bible represented the history of mankind. His Nazi party platform (their version of a constitution) included a section on Positive Christianity, and he never removed it. He confessed his Christianity. He tried to establish a united Reich German Church. Hitler allowed the destruction of Jewish synagogues and temples, but not Christian churches. He encouraged Nazis to worship in Christian churches. He spoke of his Christian beliefs in his speeches and proclamations. His contemporaries, friends, Protestant ministers and Catholics priests, including the Vatican, thought of Hitler as a Christian. The Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler. He died a Catholic. To ignore the evidence of Hitler's Christianity demonstrates how power of belief can obscure the facts."
#11 - You deny the existence of 'unpleasant facts' vehemently even with proven evidence, yet you believe absolutely without a doubt, all the written words from a single book claiming to be "Word of God".
By the way, when you saw the section tittled "Hitler Was a Christian", did you read the information or did you just scoff at the idea clicked it away? Just curious.
I have come to a conclusion about apollon and master_g, based on post #214, #251 and #254. 1. They do not admit their mistakes. 2. They fabricate new lies to cover up old ones. 3. They are reluctant to apologize if in the wrong. 4. They conveniently dodged posts which are uncomprehended and unanswerable by them instead of acknowledging as such. Apparently, they don't give such a good impression of the Christians now... -mellow
I missed WAY too many replies, so I will address most of them one at a time (because I am a long-winded old lady) Part 1: Did I just hear a contradiction here??? So is faith alone sufficient OR insufficient for a ticket to heaven? Excuse my metaphor here. Because IMO: Means faith alone IS sufficient, while: Indicates (to me at least) that doing good is also part of the cause. If you would be so kind to explain this it would be appreciated. Wow, I finished reading "The Good Omen" just now and you came around telling me that there is the physical death and spiritual death? I think I get the physical death part, as in stop breathing and some such. At which point the dead person is sent to judgement, is that correct? If the person is with God via whatever means, faith and every little condition (more on this later) he fulfilled, he will be exempted from spiritual death? While those who are separated from God, non-believers and such, will eternally burn in hell? So far so good? So one way or ANOTHER, there IS NOT a spiritual death, because if there IS a spritual death, there wouldn't be anything to be burn in hell now would it? Or is there a third plane of existence that you just failed to mention in the various discussions we have engaged in? Really, I have no problem with the two-deaths theory. This is just a matter of curiousity. Does the spirite (a la whatever dies in a spiritual death) just never dies, be it existing in heaven or hell???
Not too suprising though since their beliefs are based on a devine being that's imune to all facts, logic, reasoning, and science. However, we must be fair, in return they back up their faith with devine intervention, fate, God's will, and God's devine plan -- which I doubt would even hold up in church half the time.
Apparently; these two so-called Biblical Christians already contradict each other. Perhaps they should have a private discussion before claiming anything publicly? Apollon: There are two deaths: a physical death and a spiritual one... (?) You don't die spiritually... (?) -what? Master_G: One lives forever; thus NO spiritual deaths. Apollon: God DOES NOT stop loving you after you go to Hell. Master_G: God STOPS loving you after you go to Hell.
Part 2: Okay, so there's the "us" and the "them" again. What a consistent theme, I am sure my English teacher will give whoever wrote the bible many compliments for being cosistent. Anyways, back on topic here. How exactly did Jesus' life (or for that matter, death) changes the existence of the gentiles??? It is not like the gentiles bore witnesses to his life and death. What exactly was the difference between when God created the God's people (Jews, I presume) and the gentiles? And where did the gentiles come from anyways?? Didn't God created every single one of human beings? Or is it that ONLY the Jews are created by God while the gentiles are evolved into humans? This is not quite long enough to warrant a post, so here's another: As per my last post, it doesn't quite seems like that the you and apollon are quite agreeing with each other on this aspect. So is there spiritual death when one fail to enter heaven (aka going to hell)? If there is, what exactly is burning down there? Tiny pieces of paper with the sinners' name on it? If not, then one way or another the spirite DOES NOT DIE (be it in heaven or hell), the question is then slightly more valid. Maybe master_g should compare notes with apollon.
nice, now this is a real discussion isn't it? This is the stuff that you SHOULD find in the religion and philosophy section.
Part 3: To believe in Christ, God and Christianity, it's a choice of us humans, but it certainly is a condition of God's love. As far as I can tell from your replies so far. Unless, of course, your "all" includes ONLY Christians. Oh no, not ONLY Christians, but ONLY Christians who do good. Wow, the path to the hypothetical heaven is VERY narrow indeed. Thus, God's unconditional love to humans is a myth. God only favour those who follows him. I guess you can say "God's unconditional love to humans who are Christians and do good (= conditions IMO, but anyways)" since it is at least valid. Otherwise, please refrain from cheapening the word "unconditional love", because his love IS NOT. Well, again with the CONDITIONAL LOVE. You need to be holy and pure in order to be graced by God's love. This is becoming one of my favourite joke in a discussion on Christianity. It may be correct to you. But it still looks quite like any number of egoistic religions which considers the world to revolves around this hypothetical God and those who follows his. But I guess I am speaking in tautology here. Religion IS egoistic in general isn't it?
See post #269. Problem is the POINTS master_g and you are making are already contradicting each other. How can you call yourself a Biblical Christian when you both interpret Christianity in contradictory ways? All I am asking for is clarification from either one of you or BOTH of you; but that's the best you can come up with? "Believe in what you think is correct"??? Lol. That proves that the Bible itself can be interpreted in 'one thousand ways' in the believers' own words.
Part 4: -shock Tax you just showed them that God is indeed all loving, not only did he NOT squish Lucifer/Satan/fallen angels with his little finger (metaphor), he built them a cozy sauna! How much more loving can you get than that? /sarcasm No really, the sarcasm isn't directed to you Tax But you know, some humour here and there to cool things down -devil I think I asked something similiar about 3 months ago with the biological imperfection as my point... which is oddly answered (not quite satisfactorily) LOL, the path to heaven is VERY narrow, so don't push now. Test your faith with more contradiction... /sarcasm I still love you Tax... No, scratch that, I love you more (if that is possible) for this interesting post. LOL, Hell is heaven's counterpart of sorts, I am sure God wouldn't mind giving them unlimited space for those sinful souls (by their standards anyways)
Show me a paragraph in the Bible that says, "God has the ability to forgive 'unconditionally' with any conditions MAN-MADE. Did you just come up with that in your own creative ways, or was it really from the Bible? Since when is the exception created when it comes to NON MAN-MADE condition?!?! You totally lost me. Actually, it is a GREY area. Like I said; how can you call that a choice? To me, it sounded like a FORCED options. Example: Someone offers you a piece of candy (believe in God and go to Heaven); or a piece of shit (not believe in God and go to Hell). Which would you pick? Obviously the so-called choice is NON-EXISTENT; since nobody in their right mind would pick the piece of shit... (or do you NOT agree?) Uh, you completely lost me there. What is right/wrong? You mean just by picking the choice of believing in Him or not? How about the rest of the good deeds/bad deeds we do? Now assuming that God created Hell for Satan... For what? Torture? Torment? Now; why would God be into all these S & M; when God is supposed to be an ever-loving and ever-kind Being? Don't tell me one of God's pastimes is to take a peek at the other side of Heaven into that lake of fire and looking at those creatures burning? Don't tell me God "never stops loving you unconditionally and forgiving you unconditionally", in apollon's words; after He sent you to Hell??? "I am sorry, dear. I still do LOVE you. I FORGIVE you. But you don't believe in me. So you are to burn for eternity. MUAHAHAHAA"
Part 5: Wow, even though I do not have a Christian friend I am willing to drag through this, I am offended that you call my questions (most of which remain unaddressed and/or unanswered at the moment) spam. I would gladly show you what spam means if I do not fear being warned and banned from PA by the mods. But since I like PA OUTSIDE the Philosophy & religion section, I can only compromise to telling you that those are NOT spam. You should be proud. Well, part of the point of this discussion (or any discussion I have engaged in in regards to Christianity) is to understand the CORRECT interpretation of the Christian scripture (aka The Bible) but at this moment, since master_g and you cannot provide me with a clear interpretation (contradiction gets nobody ANYWHERE), I must regrettably continue on my quest for truth, be it Christian or otherwise.
My reply, and a clarification: What EXACTLY is correct? Since master_g and you give me the impression that there are false idol and divisions/sects of Christianity that are untrue to the spirit of Christianity, I am just being cautious JUST IN CASE I mistakenly believe in the wrong sect and end up in hell (all the while still paying with my dignity for my conversion) So you condemn other sects (aka Mormons and Jenovah's Witnesses and I think a few, if not numerous, others) as being INCORRECT and will end up in Hell while you expect me to just purge into Christianity without testing the water? And in fact, yes, I would be willing to convert if LOGICAL and NON-CONTRADICTARY reasons are given, which is quite lacking at the moment. Alas, a clarification: To those who think I PICK ON Christianity (you know who you are), I am most interested in it because: 1. It is more likely to get an answer if I have a question. Unlike other less popular religion/beliefs. 2. It condemns me to hell! But before I sign my soul to God in order to evade such terrible fate, I must read the fine prints (as everyone should with a contract which has no expirary date). Just in case some "assumed conditions" I have in mind are inaccurate. And also, I am going to re-read my earlier posts and ask the questions (of mine) which had not been addressed NOR answered, TBC.
