If Jesus really died for our sins...

Discussion in 'Philosophy & Religion' started by drsnoopy, May 21, 2007.

  1. hiake

    hiake Vardøgr of da E.Twin

    Hang on, if Christianity IS TRUE (in being the ONE PATH) and God do pay visits to all those who seeks him (out of love or else), there isn't any need for missionary...

    Because one way or another people will discover the same God.

    Playing it safe = for a converted, the ONLY reason he/she end up being converted is that he/she FOUND and FELT and CONNECTED with God, not because Christians preached about it.

    So if God apparently can do all that by his holy self (being omnipotent and omnipresent and all), WHY is there still missionaries trying to CONCINCE non-believers that God exists, is one true path and whatnot?

    I personally have YET to know a single Christians (in real life) who converted (or become a Christian) because he/she got insight from another Christian, it's ALWAYS the claim that he/she FOUND GOD and FELT CONNECTED TO GOD.

    In that case, why bother with missionary? Because apparently it's not helping in the work of converting others.
     
  2. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    i kinda of see your concerns.

    well, if there is no missionary works and we Christian kept to ourselves. then these people that feels the presence of God will not know that it is God that is trying to reach them. therefore, they will unforunately fall to a different or self-made-up religion to explain why they are having this divine"feelings", per se.

    so, missionary works are crucial. b/c in so sense, we are trying to guide people in the right direction.

    i agree. with this experience, it is really difficult to convert someone to Christianity simply on the merits of "teaching". however, i still think it is a good opening for those who want to know more about Christianity and a good place to stop those who are making it look bad.
     
  3. hiake

    hiake Vardøgr of da E.Twin

    One of the reason why Christianity is the most attacked "righteous" religion (besides the obvious choice of Muslim for its political involvement) is that it automatically deem all other religions as "self-made-up" religions.

    If the path is THE ONLY ONE which is right, the person will end up there (unless he/she wanted to go down the wrong path intentionally and KNOW it's the wrong path), don't you worry about that.

    If someone wanted to know, they will ask. So far, I have only seen uninvited "teachings" barging into a conversation inappropriately (in real life). And apparently those who are supposingly "making the religion look bad" are the most feverishly trying to convert others.

    Take a breath, somethings do not come with force nor nagging.
     
  4. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    not all the time. there are many that are stubborn and prideful and doesn't want to admit their path is wrong. so in denial, they proceed down this wrongful path. now, i use "self-made-up" with contrast to "different". if there was no religion for an individual to associate with this divine "feeling", they would make up a religion to compensate for it.

    you are right. if someone wants to know, they would ask. but what if their whole culture is buddhist, or muslim, or (God forbid) satanic. therefore, they questions would be address to fit their surrounding culture and social environment. that is why missionaries and teaching the gospel is crucial. to show the many people that wants to know the truth through the "One True Path". lol. sorry for sounding preachy. >.<


    well said, hiake. i will very much do so.
     
  5. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Wow, one question :

    Do you have any proof that your path is RIGHT?
    I guess we can say the same thing about you, don't we? That you don't wanna admit your path is wrong? Lmao.

    you are damn right, it does.
    In fact, it sounds arrogant and ignorant.

    Again, how do you know if YOUR religion is the correct true teachings of God and not everyone else's?!?!
     
  6. hiake

    hiake Vardøgr of da E.Twin

    The thing is, if the path is true and the God is true, whatever they "make up" would fall within the line of Christianity... Since in their connection to God God will tell them, no, that's not what he mean, or something was mistaken... No?

    I mean, if God really exist and DO communicate with humans, he would TELL them right from wrong (in their beliefs), being compassionate and all.

    And again, with the prideful and stubborn ones, it's beyond the missionary's earth bound power to convert time, why bother? It takes God's power to convert said group (if he wanted it to be so)

    Naw, it's fine. But I mean, as I have said before,

    It may end up pushing people from really comprehending the religion (all the while building a negative image around said religion), which OBVIOUSLY isn't the will of God.
     
  7. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    this is conversation between hiake and myself.

    you must have been skimming. lol. jk.

    we are taking into assumption that Christianity is true.
     
  8. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Since when? Who said this is a conversation between you and her exclusively?
    Excuse me, this is a PUBLIC forum.
    Now if u want a private conversation u can do so via PMS.
     
  9. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    well, God doesn't "talk" to us like what we are doing now, or verbally. Not to say that He can't do it, but its whether if He wants to do or not. b/c what He needs to say to us is written in the Bible. that is what the Bible is for.

    i see your point. God will show them there is a God, per se. however, He isn't going to state, "I AM GOD AND HERE ARE MY LAWS, JOHN" in a deep James Earl Jones voice to everyone. He can, but He doesn't. He uses the missionaries and the Christian brothers/sisters to preach and teach the word of God. and in doing so, hopefully the indivudal will understand better why they are feeling this divine "feeling".
     
  10. hiake

    hiake Vardøgr of da E.Twin

    LOL, it just happens that only apollon and I still bothers to talk in this thread :p

    LOL @ "PMS"

    BR come join the talk ;)
     
  11. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    no, that's not what i meant. this conversation has a background and assumption are made.

    anyways, ill address your question, as well.

    Obviously, there is a debate whether Christianity is right or not. or else what is the point of this forum??

    on what bases is it requirement from you that would be consider proof?
     
  12. hiake

    hiake Vardøgr of da E.Twin

    Okay, that's why the Bible is still the best selling monograph in the world, not to mention it had been translated into numerous languages

    Any idea why he doesn't (not the silly reference part) TELL people directly but instead have to go through missionary of questionable authority (and authenticity)?

    In fact, God only has to tell humans "go read the Bible and seek me (or its Godly variation)" and missionary only have to worry about the illiterate population...
     
  13. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Wrong. The debate isn't about whether Christianity is RIGHT OR WRONG.
    Because at the end of the day, there isn't any proof.
    THe debate is more on the points of the teachings.
    I am amazed you even think that this forum can prove ur religion is the right one.
    Mankind have failed to do that since the time it was created, let alone proving it on this forum LOL.

    Religion is something you CANNOT prove; it's a matter of faith and belief.
    So you can't prove that your path is the RIGHT one. Neither can anyone else of any religion.
     
  14. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    yes, there is concern for the authority of these missionaries. however, that is what the Bible is for. the missionaries needs to refer back to the Bible for guidance and understanding when questions and concerns arises. in the Bible, it tells of the need to be truthful and understanding for a missionary to a successful -- with example of Paul, the first, per se, missionary to the Gentile (non-Jewish populace).


    most missionary do worry about the illiterate population. however, the Bible is open to interpretation. if one wants (that is a problem today), they can change the original meaning of the scripture to fit what I think is right.
     
  15. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    i don't understand you.

    you want me to prove my path/religion is right? ... but then you state that religion can't be proven right or wrong.

    i'm confused. then what is your intention?
     
  16. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin

    Apollon, when did i say i want you to prove your path/religion is right??!?

    I believe we have a mutual unspoken understanding that Religion is something one CANNOT prove, however you wish to. I didn't realize I have to make it clear.
    so now OK, i'll make it clear.
    Religion is NOT sth you can prove right or wrong.

    All i wanted from you are valid reasonings of the points you came up with in your religion. Just like what you asked me on the concept of reincarnation. Did you want me to prove it RIGHT to you? No right? I believe you just questioned me on the theories of it and the reasoning of the theories.
     
  17. hiake

    hiake Vardøgr of da E.Twin

    You mean "what THEY think is right" right???

    Anyways, the following is based on the aforementioned amendment...

    With missionarys, even if they mean well, it does not mean that they do truely understand the "right" meaning of the words in the Bible, yet they hold the authoritative figure as "holy missionary" of Christianity, what makes?

    The question always boils down to: How does one know that one's interpretation of the Bible is true and correct and not confused with said person's desire to "change the words" to meet their end?

    In which case, missionary is more of a liability than an asset to spreading God's teaching/will (and such like) as they have questionable authority and autheticity...
     
  18. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    ok then. read (not skimming, but you probably know that -^_^ ) my thread. http://www.dramasian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17390

    there are some reasonings why Jesus Christ is the only way for salvation.
     
  19. apollon

    apollon Well-Known Member

    544
    68
    0
    well, the debatible parts of the Bible is not the foundational doctrines of Christianity. all Christians that have read the bible, will come to conclusion that Jesus Christ is God, He is sent to Earth to forgive us our sins, and to give us the gift of salvation and redemption. that is the bottom bases of the teachings of Christianity. lol. the whole point of this religion.

    so, whether to say that is "passage" is right or wrong .. is up to person reading it. some are obvious and some are not. however, these do not contradict the original intention of Christianity.
     
  20. BabyRain

    BabyRain Doppelgänger of da E.Twin


    Uh, Apollon, again I said I read your thread.
    And your points are totally based on that holy book of Bible.. which its origins are debatable, and I am skeptical about. There's NO solid proof.