How do we know if God is good, evil or neutral? If God is the creator of all, then he created both good and evil?
that is flawed, because apparently, he is all good only. so if god is good only, then there must already be evil in existence. but if there is evil in existence, something not created by god, that means god didn't create all. therefore god is not the creator of all, hence either god is not real, or god is not all good. think about it before you reply to my post.
I like that comment, IMO God is beyond good and evil, ultimately God is the creator and as Judge dread once said "I Am the Law" From a Christian understanding evil or sin is the act of going against the will of God as Gods will is the Law, also the fruit on the tree was the knowledge of Good and Evil, i believe this has a meaning that i am not yet able to comprehend or grasp but maybe one day i will. So though God is good the possibility for evil has always existed as rebellion against God has always been an option and evil was manifest when Satan rebelled against God. So evil or sin is not something to be created but actually an action or state of heart which can only become a possibility if Gods creatures are created with freewill to chose to serve or rebel and contest with God himself.
ok, so why do people, and by people i mean other christians, religious experts, say that god is: all mighty, all good, omnipotent? if got is any of said things, then god is flawed so it's either those people are lying, or the idea of god is beyond good and evil either way, someone here is flawed, because both contradict one another. both can't be right.
Sure Sure, the people who say what they say are not entirely correct in what they say, the bible also says all things work for the greater good so even when evil happens God is still in control and it will all work out for his people. nothing happens in this world that God is not aware of. Also even though God is those things above and infinity more you must remember that a tiny little being with freewill can stand against God if they choose to, of course they wont win but its their choice if they try and they only have themselves to blame when they fail. If they did win, then yes God would be flawed. We Christians tend to look at one side of God, his goodness, but we usually evade and refuse to speak of his Judgement and Holiness and Anger which are dished out in equal measures.
that's big talk there man... you're implying the rest of the christian world who believe what i stated to be true are wrong... lol anyways, that's part of the reason right there though. you don't want to look at the other side of the topic, hence cannot give an open mind on the topic.. one thing though, to have a more sophisticated discussion, you gotta look at the other side and comprehend that first..
Not really, Christian world has been changing all the time, and to be honest, no one can truly give a definite answer. I honestly don't see the proof that God does not exist anyway. So IMHO the other side of the agrument is just as weak as the other one -_-
Ultimately for me as a Christian, the bible says what it says, but men sometimes articulate it incorrectly, If it becomes a case of whos wrong out of man or God then man is wrong and Gods Word is true. Its totally true that im not very good at looking at the other side when it comes to my faith, anything else but my Faith, so ill be honest concerning that, so i will bow out. thanks for the convo :biggthumpup:
How do we know? Well, if you are referring to God in the Christian context, then you will have to read the Bible to determine His characteristics. But to answer your question more directly -- it is clearly written throughout the Bible that God is good. "The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble." [Nahum 1-7] "Jesus answered, 'No one is good - except God alone.' " [Mark 10:18] No, He didn’t. Goodness is one of the characteristics of God. He did not create it --- He is. Therefore, what is evil? Evil is the absence of God. When one loses God completely, then one becomes evil. Evil is not created by God, but is produced by another when not being with God. For example, there is a single lamp on a dark street. You see the light and it comes from that lamp. However, once you turn off that light – darkness comes into existence. Darkness did not exist until the light was eliminated. Therefore, evil does not exist until one chooses to reject God.
lol dude... this was what master_g and i was talking about earlier... one person says god is good, the other says god is beyond good and evil those statements contradict one another lol it's one or the other. which is it?
well, I think I was quite clear on who God is. Truthfully, I do not really understand what master_g meant when he stated that God was "beyond" good and evil. (Maybe he could jump in and explain it :biggthumpup But, fundamentally towards the end of his statements -- his underlying points were what I wanted to address to kybhor. Evil does not exist separate from the sovergein existence of God.
not really, but if you really want to, then by all means, satisfy yourself lol i'm just saying that 1 + 1 = 2 based on basic logic, and based on the three conditions of god: 1) omnipotent 2) all mighty 3) all good if evil exists, then god cannot exist the only way god satisfies all three condition, and that evil exists, and that god exists as well, is by saying 1 + 1 = 3. then again.. you're probably going to say god is beyond logic, so there would be no point in going any further because there would not be anything to really debate about.
wasaaaap apollon -- ok i had a look at it, it was in context to what dan was saying about if God is good then there must already be evil in existence, but looking at it now i dont even get it myself rofl, i think the point that i was trying to get out was to difficult for me to put into words, the rest of what i said in that post looks pretty legit though lol, forgive me guys. maybe ill have another go at explaining when im more able >.< dann, look at the third paragraph of that post, i said God IS good, i guess the first line was a failed attempt at conveying what i was trying to say in my mind. if you can find a cable that connects our brains then maybe i can hook you up with what i was *trying* to say hehe Luke 18:18-19 18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
heres some more attributes to factor in [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He experiences JOY. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is LIFE & the source & CREATOR of all life. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is the SUSTAINER of all creation. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is TRUTH, He is GENUINE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]As a "being," God alone is innately IMMORTAL. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly and completely HOLY (Leviticus 19:1-2; I Peter 1:16), PURE, and RIGHTEOUS. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is the perfect embodiment and being of INTEGRITY. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses an awesome GLORY & is glorious. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is PERSONAL. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfect LOVE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is fully/always and perfectly PURPOSEFUL. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly BENEVOLENT. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is filled with [and delivering of] MERCY. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses a perfect sense and state of GRACE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is a GOOD God. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He has the fundamental attribute of INFINITY. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He has the fundamental attribute of ETERNITY. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He has the fundamental attribute of FREEDOM/INDEPENDENCE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses perfection in all factors of DISPENSING of anything. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses perfection in TIMING of anything.[/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses perfection in EXECUTION of any action. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly TRUSTWORTHY. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly FAITHFUL. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses COMPASSION & is open to giving perfect FORGIVENESS. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is ultimately SOVEREIGN. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly, totally, and supremely POWERFUL...OMNIPOTENT. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses complete and perfectly accurate OMNISCIENCE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is OMNIPRESENT...everywhere at all times; He is the PRESENT God. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses perfect skill at REDEMPTION, RESTORATION, HEALING, and REGENERATION. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly and completely PERSISTENT. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses and executes perfect WISDOM. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He possesses the only full and perfect source and sense of JUSTICE and JUDGMENT. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is IMMUTABLE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is CONSISTENT and perfectly so. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is PARTICULAR. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is INSCRUTABLE & MYSTERIOUS. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]Yet He is DISCERNIBLE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is the source of SALVATION. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is a JEALOUS (zealous) God. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]God can GRIEVE and SUFFER. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He can be VENGEANCE SERVING. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He can be DISMISSIVE and will ALLOW bad outcomes. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly, expertly DECISIVE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]God is MAJESTIC. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is AROUSABLE. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is perfectly and fully SUFFICIENT to meet all our needs. [/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic, Arial, Helvetica]He is JUST and demands JUSTICE and is willing to be ANGRY and WRATHFUL, and PUNISHING...if need be. these are only the known attributes, an infinite God will have infinite attributes Ok im bowing out again 0/ [/FONT]
This topic has been debated for thousands of year, unless until some new evidence to prove one way or another, this can go on forever. It is better not to be debated too much, this is one of the main causes of wars.
