most people are doing it for the lulz, but that is no excuse. i wonder who the mastermind is because whoever it is, they managed to get all rival gangs to work together. it was amusing when i found that it was 2 chefs who wreaked a nandos. you would think it was just the feral youths causing the trouble but you got all sorts of people in the riots at all ages up to late forties with their own agendas and a common cause which is destruction. Ohh well, when its all over them ijits will have to live in their mess and they even burned down their local Lidl..... why you would burn down your local cheap food supply is beyond me, bet the benefits office was untouched though :trollface2:
Plainly speaking, martial law, just means laws or rule imposed by the military, in this case used to augment the civilian authorities and police forces. It is clear that the number of Metro Police Constables aren't enough to get a firm handle on the situation. The bands of hooded rogues are literally running circles around them. Military troops could be used to guard specific locations (like SONY Enfield, before it was burned to the ground) and critical access routes, thus allow the MPC's a much greater range to patrol and to arrest criminals. Martial law still remains subject to rules of engagement as determined by the military authorities. As a matter of fact, after 911 in NYC, there were Military Police augmenting New York City Police at many bus, air and rail terminals, and at certain city landmarks. In Europe, it also isn't that unusual to see both US and German military police being used to patrol the streets. I myself did that as a Military Policeman when I was stationed in Germany. Martial law in and of itself, does not mean shooting students. Again, legitimate protest is perfectly lawful. Many totalitarian countries, who do not want to listen to legitimate protest, have often resorted to martial law, and have used soldier and police to shoot and kill otherwise peaceful protesters. However, in this case (in a country that normally values and upholds the rights of protest), the process that started as a perfectly legitimate protest was soon hijacked by criminals and thugs, who had then turned the protest into a massed crime wave. It is against this crime wave that martial law must be imposed until the police can maintain safe order and peace in the streets. Those that continue to perpetrate crimes would subject themselves to the full weight of the law, which in book, includes lethal force.
yep 3 guys got run over last night, and some dude got shot in a car a couple days ago?, not sure if the later was related though.
being kinda apathetic there eh by zzzzzz you mean sleep so you one of those that just want to watch the world burn?
no but your description seems like it gives the authority to the officers to shoot whomever engages them and whomever they feel are causing trouble. Give the power and right for another human to kill one another and you might create a monster, the police force are not robots they can't be programmed to only kill people with certain dna sequences or whatever. If its just policing isn't that what they are currently doing now? And its quite a bit ineffective at the moment right. I mean if it grants to the right to arrest anyone then i guess yeah but can the prisons handle that. But yeah if you mean millitary input didn't bulla already say that they are inadequate to invoke such law? I dunno as long as you dont suggest giving them the right to kill whomever they suspect are part of this riot then i'm all for it.
You know, after reading that bit about the bus that was commandeered by the brazen crowd (who stopped the bus and demanded that everyone get out so they could burn it) I wonder what I would do if I faced that situation as the driver. I mean, if I had my family in the car, I would probably step on the gas, knowing that I would kill some of them by running over them, but try my best to get away. No way would I ever stop. No, I meant that the ones who are CLEARLY and OBVIOUSLY engaged in CRIMINAL behavior. Taking a large piece of wood and attempting to use it to bash the head of a policeman is not protest or the legitimate furthering of political ideals. It is considered armed and deadly assault in just about any civilized society. Any police officer, anywhere in the world, is within his rights (as granted by their sovereign state) to immediately shoot and kill the perpetrator. What Bulla previously alluded to was that he seriously doubted that the UK could muster enough troops as they're already stretched thin by their Iraq and Afghan engagements. But that certainly doesn't mean that it wasn't a good idea. Further, shooting looters in order to maintain order isn't far fetched. It all boils down to what we in society feel is right versus wrong; does someone have the inherent right to use force to protect his property from being taken by another through forceful means? I would answer yes. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3744627/Cops-surprise-cycling-riot-mob.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023667/London-riots-Looter-posts-photo-booty-Facebook.html ...and this, from some Asian shop owners during the Rodney King Riots in Los Angeles that happened years ago (as found on Wiki):
^ Normally most of us wouldnt but as things are now, most of us would do the same. beats having them get to my family. But if they are stupid enough to stand in front of the car in that situation....
yea but eventually after a while not everything would be clear and obvious and like i said put a gun into someone's hand and give them the power to kill based on their own perception of right and wrong and you will eventually make a monster. Eventually innocents will get killed in the process especially since there are many civilians involved in this conflict, the opposing side are not actually armed like soldiers wars. I'm in doubt that clear line would actually be drawn but i guess that is what war is but can we actually compare this to an all out war?
Really? So, in your view, EVERY man or woman who is a police officer or soldier, is or should be qualified as a monster? I beg to differ. If anything, I would place more trust in the police and soldiers as they have a clear cut chain of command, a system of authority, and established rules of engagement. And no, this is not all out war. This is opportunistic criminality that still wants to seek protection as offered by the rules and tenets of society. They still want the state to offer protection (by its laws of citizen rights) even as they seek to personally enrich themselves by violating the law and rights of other individuals. IMHO, your blanket statement of "eventually innocents will get killed in the process..." is rather naive given that innocents are already being blatantly beat up, mugged in broad daylight, and forced to jump from burning buildings. But let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment; suppose it was the police that did that; that is, blatantly beat up people, mugged citizens in broad daylight, and set fire to buildings, forcing residents to jump for their lives to escape the flames. What would you say to that? That the police are just expressing political ideals? LOL... I find it amazing the selective reasoning that some choose to subscribe to. What is happening is that crime is running rampant. Society has every right and expectation to hold the line against criminals, even through the use of lethal means. Oh, and more on the guy that was mugged, and then mugged again by those that pretended to come to his aid: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...11-Ashraf-Haziq-jaw-smashed-robbed-thugs.html And what citizens will do when the state fails to defend them: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-...mselves-against-rioters/2832740?section=world http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/10/us-britain-riot-vigilantes-idUSTRE77959G20110810 Tech being used by Rioters to their criminal advantage: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...1-BlackBerry-Messenger-shut-unbelievable.html
well i was a little farfetched there but the uk people used the police brutality as an excuse in the first place so basically evoking the law and encouraging even more police brutality to stop this violence is not going to help a lot, its only going to escalate things. Obviously not everything is going to be solved peacefully but giving the freedom to go all out would be feeding bullets into the gun of the rioters, well their so called "cause" that is. Don't get me wrong if i was part of this conflict i would also want the police and military to do their friggin job and save us but obviously i'm outside looking in and im not the one being mugged or caught in this unnecessary conflict. And we do live in a society that only pay attention to what authoritative figures do, well we look at the person or group carrying out those actions. If they are nameless then we don't care to even mention it, only a specific group of people care. Only those affected will know those that are involved. If it was caused by the whole police force then everyone will know what happened and that would mean these rioters for the so called cause would just get worsen. I don't really know how to put this but there might be a chance of succeeding in using force but theres also a chance where it will ignite the situation even further but i guess thats left for the leaders to take the risks into perspective and decide the proper action to use. This also all goes down to issues such as death penalty etc so i wont even go there, i mean i havent killed anyone or saw anyone get killed in front of my eyes so i dont know what type of psychological shit it will cause but just imagine the police shooting someone in the streets and bystanders just watch as this isnt an isolated case and is happening everywhere. What would that look like, or should they arrest them then shoot them execution style? Obviously they cant arrest everyone they see that cause violence. I don't know how it will work. Oh, and more on the guy that was mugged, and then mugged again by those that pretended to come to his aid: from this headline it seems these thugs are animals and won't hesitate to do whatever it takes. If the police start shooting i don't think that they won't do the same if they have access to these weapons. I'm all for an eye for an eye but thats because i haven't experience such conflicts yet not the trauma after it so i have no credibility when i say that.
The point that some people have trouble with, is the confusion between police brutality and ANY use of force. First, we must ask ourselves if the police can EVER use force. If the answer is no, then stop sending the police out into the street. Instead have them appear on television to sternly warn people of the trouble that they may find themselves in should they participate in criminal behavior. But if the answer is yes, then we have to consider how much force they can use; of course, the prime question is, can the police EVER use LETHAL force? IMHO, the answer is clearly, yes. Under what situation should such force be used, is then the question. Some people (perhaps because of agenda) continue to purposely confuse legitimate use of force with the term "brutality." IMHO, the fact remains that some people will never like it, but the police can and should kill people who are clearly about to do grievous harm to others. Your comment: I think it has been pretty well accepted by all parties that the legitimate protest (over the original shooting) has been well overtaken by opportunistic criminality.
for me my only worry is these people know they can do this and get away with it, what stops them doing it again? The councils are saying those caught will get evicted from their council houses, the best part is families that have children involved in the riots will get evicted too, awesome news. Parents need to take responsibility too.
IMHO, a largely politically popular but almost empty threat. So you're going to throw out entire poor families (women, babies, et cetera) into the street because Johnny the Dropout decided to nip a few packages during the riots? I would like to see that being upheld in court. There is almost zero chance of that EVER happening. A continuing stream of tough talk from the politicians that has zero effect on the street. What needs to be done is for the UK to use all those available pics, and very publicly start arresting a lot of people for their participation in the riots.
To be honest, I personally believe that to be a wrong approach, because it uses punitive actions too broadly and indiscriminately and can impact those that may have had nothing to do with the rioting. Moreover, if the police can't stop some of these brazen rioters, why should we assume that their parents can? In this manner, London would be seen as trying to exact a pound of flesh from those already with the least, to make up for its own shortcomings in terms of ability to maintain order. IMHO, the time to catch these folks in the act was during the riots, when the police were either too cautious or fearful to act. They should have caught and thrown the perpetrators into jail at that time. Now, after the fact, to throw the families of perpetrators into the street smacks of politically expedient and misdirected anger; like throwing out the baby with the bath, so to speak. It would amount to a sheer waste of time, money, and needless suffering for those that probably have anything to do with it, and likely wouldn't withstand legal challenges.
oh it will, a whole family can suffer because of the actions of one person. check this out. Because of what happened we are doing things we normally wouldnt do, as for catching people in the act of rioting, that couldnt happen and its to late now because it is finally starting to calm, or maybe it was the rain yesterday, we will see. The police have all the video footage and will go after everyone seen to be causing damage or robbing. I do agree that some families have no chance of controlling the monster they created (with help from the gov) epsecially when they are older teenagers but thats just how its going to be but imo if you are a parent and your 11 year old is out in the middle of the night during these times, you are just as responsible imo. Check this out: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/mps-parliament-amid-police-budget-strain-045713834.html
my friend told me this and i thought it was pretty good...^^ "..just saw a chav run with a chicken korma in his hands.... guess he got confused when his friends said lets rob a currys...!.." ba dum dum dosshhhhh... =]
No nassy the zzzzzz represents a sigh and how I want this to end .... Just to let u all know a petition is being held to evict all and cut all benefits from people who were involved in the riot and looting ....... I'm sorry but evicting people from homes = more homeless and defeats the idea already of how Britain is "supposedly" run ..... Okay I see you guys said it already but there ya go ... Also team annon and team poison said they will hack bb and fb if they give out public info
