how can you say that physical defects are beneficial to an individual develop. if you have been with an family members or dear friends that are physically "defected" or mentally "defected" ... life is hell for them and the ppl around them. i can't see how being disable can provide a "good possible openings" in their and their families & friends' lives.
Hmm, Ok ... Let me try and explain in much simpler terms... First of all, YOU ARE AWARE OF YOUR PAST MISTAKES after you die, and you are aware of what lessons you are meant to learn in your next life after viewing all those from the HOM. Thereafter; you lay down the pieces. For the best possible ways that you are supposed to learn your Lessons, whatever they may be. FOR EXAMPLE: Let's say in your current just ended life, you were a self-conceited and totally arrogant rich spoilt brat. So in your next life, you chose to be born into poverty. Go through the hardships of being poor, so that you may learn not to be arrogant and conceited anymore... and spend your money as if they were made of tissue papers. And you may succeed in learning that OR you may not learn it ... But at least you DID LAY OUT THE BEST POSSIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES for it to happen. Now am I clear?
please, BabyRain ... be respectful and professional. do not insult me. if my questions are stupid and irrevelant ... just point in the right direction and i'll read that post. but there is NO need to be disrespectful ... i might even be your elder. <_< my question and statement no longer referred just to Buddha ... but to us too. it was general question to the open public.
Hmmm, not unlike the way many are convinced "It's the man above who want to challenge me" mentality? And even though it IS stressful, it also teaches the persons involved to treasure life all the more, to be grateful of their wholeness (physically and mentally intact) PS> Despite how we all handle elder or senior with kiddie gloves, it is not being an elder which warrant respect, but being wise does.
Why not? someone like Paris Hilton would totally freak out if she was born with a physical defect in her next life. And she would be made fun by the others. That's when she learns to be very humble about herself. The fact that she withstood all the mean jokes made on her expense is going to "reward" her after she has passed away because she endured it and learnt to be patient. I see you are relating the term 'good possible openings' as REWARDS in your next life. But they ARE NOT. The best possible openings are meant to be ways for you to LEARN your lessons. Not so-called rewards in the next life.
look. another way of thinking is this. hypothetically speaking, you were born special (im refraining the use of the word defect) in order to learn something.. perhaps, you were born that way maybe because you did something terrible the previous life. im not trying to say "special people" are lower than anyone else, im just saying, due to the restrictions in freedom, you are restricted from doing things you would usually do without those physical restrictions.. i really dont want to use the word punishment, but there is really no other words to describe the lighter version of punishments.. since everyones lessons are completely different, there is really no way to tell what lessons you are trying to learn by reincarnating in a disabled body.. and by incorporating the idea of b-rain with paris hilton, its the same, whether you are in a perfect body or a disabled body.. you learn lessons, and one of them MAY BE to learn to endure criticism from others..
Thank God for written postings. If this was a verbal debate; I would have nothing against you... See your OWN post below which I quote: NOW.. since YOU brought up BUDDHA; of course I have to relate to BUDDHA then don't I??!
I said SOME PEOPLE... do you relate yourself to that statement because you feel you are? Just like what you commented to Dann on the other thread?
Even someone like Hiake who's an Atheist can comprehend the reasoning here.. Dun understand why it's so difficult to grasp it?
i going to get to everyone --- man, it's a firing squad. lol. but i'm going to reply to BabyRain first -- no. re-read my post. you are correct, initially i was talking about Buddha. however you clear up that point. then i move onto a more general view. no longer dewelling on the example of Buddha. what does Atheism has anything to do with grasping a religious conception? -.-
its not supposed to be difficult lol... the teachings were made to simplify teaching to others as well..
That's right.. I see that coming... That's why I moved on to PARIS HILTON as an example. Now she's not Buddha right... -shock
I understand that you meant circumstances one is born into when you were talking about best possible openings. But there is still no such thing as "best possible openings" unless one knows the future. Let's say one is born into a rich family. One could get richer or lose all of one's family's money. Let's say one is born into a poor family, one can be even worse off with sicknesses or one can become richer. I am not sure whether you regard being rich as a good opening or bad opening. A person born into a rich family will be accustomed to being rich and wealthy and may even take things for granted. A person will not know what it is like to be poor so he may not know that they are well off. Likewise, a person born into a poor family will not know what it is like to be rich. He will be accustomed to his poor life and not think much of it because that is how it has always been for him. My point is that anything can happen in the future which makes all "openings" more or less an equal opportunity of success and failure. How one defines "best opening" completely determines on one's thinking. You cannot say that because a person grew up with poor family relationships and is gay is living in a "bad circumstance" for reincarnation.
the initial mentality of "God is challenging me" is for sufferance that is caused over a short amount of time (when i refer as short --- anything less that a lifetime). however, in my experience ... dealing with mental illness from birth to death is not a "method of instruction" to improve one's life and better one's perceiving to receive Nirvana. it just doesn't make sense in that format. do you see my view? and yes ... not all elders deserve our respect. i could have place my own cultural upbring in to the picture. ok, dann i see your point. your explanation doesn't answer me question -- however i attend to this analogy first. b/c i have a question to it. how do we know that (using your example) that being born to poverty is better than being born back into a rich family? that is a probablity chart for this? sorry, if someone ask this before. b/c it seems like a general question.
I said those best possible openings ARE related to the LESSONS which you are supposed to LEARN... Yes it can turn out successfully and it can turn out the other way.. That's exactly why this Earth is a classroom in the first place. There's NO guarantee that you'll be able to graduate just coz you lay out the best possible openings... right? If there is such thing; then what's the point?!?! Everyone of us would have gone on to be Buddhas now floating sumwhere in other planes and not having our debate in PA. Please read up on my Paris Hilton example again... Yes true that a person may be accustomed to being poor. But then he also endured the hardships of being poor. There's a difference between NOT HAVING experienced poverty and between accepting that you are poor and getting accustomed to it. By 'getting accustomed' to it; he would have already passed his lessons, no? As in being able to endure poverty? and he would have understood that you can't get anything at ur whims and fancies because you are poor? On the other hand; "A person born into a rich family will be accustomed to being rich and wealthy and may even take things for granted. " Exactly. That's a possible scenario and that's why he would have failed the lesson which he was meant to learn!!! By BEST POSSIBLE OPENINGS; I did use the word POSSIBLE to achieve that lesson, and I believe I did not say BEST GUARANTEED OPENING. Just like in chess; after you laid out your best opening; you may still LOSE.
For the last time; please do not take my words out of context. I believe I NEVER said such things as being born into poverty is better than being born into a rich family. You guys cannot comprehend the concept; so I am giving out AN EXAMPLE. It could be the other way around... You may still choose to be born into a rich family. And your lesson is to learn to be modest and not look down on any other poor people around you. So it can go either way; if you SUCCEEDED in being modest and treat the poor as equals; you would then have passed your lesson. If you treated the poor as rubbish; then you would have FAILED.
Not really. Because a challenge is a challenge no matter big or small. Do you only view a challenge as a God-given challenge if it's shorter than 24 hours or some ridiculous limit like that? I personally think a challenge is a challenge to be overcome (and I have seen my fair share of physical disability, a little bit less familiar in the mental disability department) It is a matter of attitude: because if one is ungrateful to life, one can ALWAYS find things to complain about, not being rich enough, smart enough, beautiful enough etc etc. The disability, in the multi-reincarnation view, become a classroom example of learning to be grateful of life aka "I could have been a lot worse off" Thus your earlier rant against BR is unfound. I am not BR, but my non-buddhist view on this question is this: There is NO WAY we can know, however, just like accumulating knowledge via means of trial and error, we have to try out most "circumstances" be it preferable or otherwise. If we only experience life with the "preferable" circumstances, we would be lacking important knowledge of lessons only learnt by "less than desirable" circumstances.
ok. i understand that part. offtopic -- 無得頂, you have some intrigueing questions and comments. i enjoy reading them. at least i'm not alone here with my considers and questions. -clapclap back again ... however, would it be correct to give an assumation from a humanistic point of view -- suffering is really painful; therefore most individuals would want to start off with a good life, with good parents, with good friends, with a healthly body, a good mind, a good life-style. however, in reality.. that isn't true. there are far more ppl that are suffering in africa and asia from famines and rural health conditions then there are "happy rich" folks.
Starting from a cushy place does not mean any less "suffering". Because one only get disillusioned and the downfall is greater and likely more painful. Well, the "happy rich" folks has to come from somewhere right? Humans in general just wanted to be above average, so there is BOUND to be richer thus happier folks. And if everyone's wish to be born in a good family is granted, it will eventually just end up with everyone getting upset for NOT raising above the others. Of course, it could be another lesson to be learned. Though I am not certain about that part.
