^ Yeah, no kidding. The animal astral plane will be filled! Since we kill them and eat them, will they be sent straight to earth to live out their unexpired lives?
is there any definition on what is serious and whats not? so in a way we can commit sins but its ok as long as it is not serious? e.g. i can lie frequently as long as it is a 'small' matter? hmm if i only have 1 lesson left, i reincarnate and completed it BUT i made mistakes on (insert figure) lessons, some of which are 'serious' mistakes, i wont get penalized? sounds like im in a sure win position with nothing to lose =D izit just me or are there 2 ways to 'graduate'? earlier u mentioned that we will graduate once we learn all our lessons and now the number of noble lifes? if im suppose to live till 90 years old that life but killed myself at the age of 20 cuz im too emo...do i reincarnate with a 70 years timer? will this 70 years be considered as another life itself cuz it aint a few days or months? and btw at what age is a person open to 'judgement'? unless it is stated that there is a minimun life span to each soul, what if im only suppose to live for 3 years in that life? i would still die as a baby hence making it meaningless for me to reincarnate =P hehe i actually made a post later listing out questions which were still unanswered and thats not in the list =P what can an ant learn? some animals are born to kill, how will they learn peace? unless there is a specific list of whats animal (smart animals like chimp maybe?) and whats whats not (retarded animals like ant), i have no idea how this animal heaven is gonna work unless u can explain it to me im also wondering if a person is born with serious retardation, he wouldnt be able to judge what is wrong and what is right, how is the Overself gonna 'judge' him?
Now now, seems that our Jun here is very concerned about 'sins' and 'mistakes'. I think this is where I should lay out the laws of karma, which plays a very very important role in hopefully, addressing Jun's concern. What is KARMA? “As ye sow, so shall ye reap”. If you are going to sow some bad deeds, you will reap a bad future either in the next life, or the next, or the one after that. If in this life, you sow good, if you show goodness and kindness and compassion to those in need, then when your own turn comes to misfortune, someone; somewhere, will show you kindness and consideration and compassion. However; if a person is suffering hardship now it may not be because that person was evil. It may also be to see how the person reacts under hardship; under suffering, it may be a process of refining to drive away by suffering some of the impurities, some of the selfishness of humanity. Karma, then, is the process whereby we incur debts and we pay off those debts. We make a debt, we have to pay it; we do good to others, they must pay us back and do good to us. Some people may have a very sick relative with whom they must live with. They may think, “Oh, how tiresome! Why cannot he die and be out of his misery?” The answer is, of course, that both are working out a planned life span, working out a planned form of existence. The person who is supposed to be looking after the sick one may have planned to come just for that purpose. Most importantly; one should remember that karma is like a bank account. If you do a person good, then you accumulate money in your bank. If you do a person some ill; then in effect you have lost money from the bank and so you are in debt. If you have money in the bank, then you have a credit balance, and that credit is good karma. If you have good karma, you can do things that you want to do, and you can also trade on your good karma so long as you do not do so much “horse trading” that your good karma or your credit balance disappears, and you get into debt, because then you’ve got to work hard to get rid of the debts. Further, a common misconception is that people suffer due to their bad Karma; which is not necessarily accurate. Many people come to this Earth with a definite plan that they will have a specific illness; be it cancer or live in poverty and other types of suffering. But it's not necessarily that the person's bad karma is 'paying him back'. It could be an accident, a mischance and nothing more. Nor does it mean that the poor wretched doctor has a load of karma added because some things are accidents, and it does not mean that if a person has a definite, unavoidable accident, he is going to be saddled with karma. The person who comes down and is injured through a complete mischance gets 'credits' because the failure of that life was not of his making. If a person is very badly impaired, that is, if he is in a coma due to the ‘mischance’, then the astral body itself would go and take up residence elsewhere, and the human vegetable will then continue to tick over throughout the rest of the life, getting neither better nor worse. And sometimes, you may have a very good person who gets a lot of pain and suffering, and we may think that it is unfair that such a good person should have to endure such suffering, or you may think that the person is paying back an exceedingly bad karma. He must have been a fiend in previous life. But this may be wrong. The person may be enduring all these in order to see how the pain can be eliminated for others who come after. He may be accumulating good karma instead. It could also be because enduring all those pain/suffering would enable him to advance his own spiritual progress in the quickest time. In conclusion, to attain Nirvana and the state of Buddhahood, one has to pay off one’s bad karma fully. Only by one’s success in overcoming one’s Karma can one be ready to move on to another plane of existence. So in other words, after death; yes one has choice in laying out his own pieces of his next upcoming life. However, he must also take into account the 'bank account balance' or the karma he has accumulated; be it bad or good karma. It's just equivalent to when you want to purchase something (choosing to the ways/circumstances you would be reincarnated as); one has to take into account one's own bank account balance/resources (karma balance). So you can choose to slack in your upcoming life; but you are only accumulating bad karma if you do only bad deeds. Thus, you move lower in the rank of evolution and further away from graduating. If you choose to do more good deeds, you move up higher in the rank. So I hope this will address Jun's concern about making mistakes, etc. The answer is simple. If you do a bad deed, your bad karma accumulates. If you do good deeds, your good karma accumulates. Let's say in your supposedly last life on Earth; you did some 'mistakes'. But your good karma is able to 'cover up' for your bad ones, and you are still within the range of the 'pass mark' for graduation. Then you'll be able to escape from the process of rebirth on this Earth. Now on the other hand, if you committed a really bad deed that makes your karma level drop down to below the 'pass mark', you will go back to Earth and learn again.
Look at it this way, if you lead a number of noble lifes, that means you commit a lot of good deeds and less of the bad ones. Thus, logically, your good karma would accumulate in such a way that you'd finally be deemed to 'pass' and move on to the next level of evolution. I did not say that it is a MUST that you must lead a CERTAIN number of noble lifes, but it is a FACT that you must at least lead a number of the noble lifes to be able to reach the 'pass mark'. It is the same as saying you graduate once you learn all your lessons. It is IMPOSSIBLE for one to learn ALL their lessons on Earth in just ONE single lifetime. Even Gautama Buddha did not become a Buddha in his one single lifetime; he was previously reincarnated again and again.
Right it is meaningless; that's exactly why you SHOULD NOT suicide in the first place. You get sent back to Earth WITHOUT a choice because you suicided. It is a form of punishment. I am not sure if your that particular life would be taken into account ie if you did some good deeds would it count as well; and at what age is a person open to judgment because that again, is a technical question. But just look at this way, NEVER attempt suicide and you shall not have to bother with this concern at all.
That's right. The only difference is in Buddhism, it's not so simple as just ONE lifetime. There's the laws of karma and one believes that one is never going to be able to achieve Nirvana (ie Heaven in the Christian beliefs) in just ONE single lifetime. But ultimately, the 'reward' is similar. In Christianity; it is HEAVEN. Whilst in Buddhism, it is NIRVANA/Buddhahood or escape from the cycle of rebirth on this Earth. The 'punishment' in Christianity is HELL. Whilst in Buddhism, it is being stuck in the cycle of rebirth and sent back to Earth aka Hell.
I believe the above post does explain a little about what happens to oneself when one reaches the ninth plane. Jamien, I cannot tell you exactly what happens in the ninth plane; but all I know is when we eventually evolved until we reached the ninth plane, then we would reunite with our Human Overselves and there is an undescribable state of bliss.
Is there some kind of miscommunication here or are you just trying to poke fun with your type of questions? Seems to me that you are more concerned about how an animal would evolve rather than trying to comprehend how a human would evolve first? Lol. All I can tell you is that animals have their OWN way of evolution, and I have no idea how they learn and what lessons are they supposed to learn. It is stated in the scriptures that animals have their own way of communicating, ie through telepathy and they are in fact more spiritually inclined than us humans. How am I supposed to know how the animal heaven works when I don't even know how the ninth plane of existence (aka the human Heaven) is like? I suggest you try to understand how us, humans, evolved FIRST before you try to find out about animals. And the answer itself is not even possible to be comprehended fully whilst one is still on this Earth; let alone trying to comprehend how animals evolve. It is very ignorant of you to term an ant as a retarded animal. In fact, do you know exactly what is going on in an ant's mind? How they communicate and such? As I have said, the animals have their own concept of Time. For all you know, an ant might have learnt much more in one single day than you in 10 years' time. All animals have their own purpose on Earth. For example; you said there are animals bornt to be predators. Their purpose is to keep the food cycle in check. Ie the ecology process. I am sure you have learnt about this in your school lessons. If no one killed any animals, then soon the world would be overrun with animals of every type! To understand how an animal thinks, one would have to be a telepath. And this, is not impossible as there are indeed a number of telepaths in this world; although the number is very rare. Perhaps, you, Jun, can take a lessons on telepathy and hopefully, one day, you are able to communicate with the animals. Then you can talk to an ant and try to find out if he is indeed as retarded as you think?
This again, is similar to the question on animals. We do not know exactly what is going through a person's mind who is seriously retarded (I take it you mean MENTALLY). And again, there is a purpose for him to be bornt that way, or come to be that way. If you haven't read properly, the Overself does not 'judge' you. You judge yourself. The Overself is there to receive everything that you have learnt.
Jamien, I was talking about SUICIDES. Being killed is NOT suicide... <_< And besides, each animal's purpose in life is different. For example, a chicken raised by the farmer, it may be bornt just to serve that purpose to feed another.
question -- if judgement is upon my own perceptive and to my own discretion. wouldn't that be open to debate? since, it is a human tendency to give excuse for one's mistakes and problem. wouldn't it be logic to state that when one enters the astral plane to view his/her life ... different reasons can be used to "clarify" the mistakes they made in their lifes? unless, of course ... there is a written/outside source that states "what is right and what is wrong". and since the Overself does not judge you - he logically cannnot provide those rules.
Ur post related to karma didnt really answer some of the stuff i want to know, i'll try asking in another way =P according to ur statement, we have to reincarnate and learn again only if we commit a' big' and 'serious' mistake, so im assuming 'small' mistakes are ok to commit. also what if we already 'pass' the lesson regarding the 'serious' mistakes from our previous life? my results will be reverted? hmm i think learning and passing each lesson is different from accumulating good karma. for example there are 100 lessons to learn, i learn 1 lesson each life but made mistakes on 50 of them, by the 100th life i learnt all my lessons but made 5000 mistakes...doesnt sounds like i am a noble person in this scenario =P and well u see u didnt mention anything about collecting good karma here : u only said that if i had learnt everything i can move on, not a single word about accumulating karma. who said so that it is meaningless? what if im committing suicide for the benefits of others? for example if there is this person who hates me for some reason, wants me to commit suicide or else he will threaten to kill all the hostages, how is this meaningless? i committed suicide in the hope to protect others and now im getting punished? lol btw u missed this out =P how is my question related to evolution? i dont care how smart can a chicken evolve in the future, as it is, a chicken is still not a very intellectual creature to begin with, i didnt even expect U to know how it works, im just wondering if it is written in the scripture or not. From the way u describe it, the scripture have a rather vague explanation of it lol please dont get started with the concept of evolution. u keep comparing human and animals in general, but all animals gone thru difference evolution cycle from one another as well. However, the similarities between all organisms suggest that all known species are descended from a single ancestral species through this process of gradual divergence. We share the same root, animals are not a totally seperate entity from us. We human will definately view ourselves above animals but will God be the same? are our lives more precious than animals in the eye of God just cuz we human evolve faster? Im ignorant? nah do u know creatures like ants and bees are borned with a set of predetermined commands, sort of like being programmed to perform certain tasks, they wont question why they are doing it, they just do it, in short do not have a mind of thier own. i have no interest in understanding a creature with such a simple mind. and btw im too lazy to copy paste the full info of how they communicate, all i can say is that it has something to do with the antenna and trails of scent left behind So im suppose to judge a retarded self? we dont have to know whats in thier mind, the point here is they can commit sins w/o themselves even knowing they just did it and at the same time they can perform good deeds w/o having the intention at all. How do i judge myself like that? Btw care to share where the source of where u refer these info from?
Chickens are smart. Have you watched "Chicken Run" before? lol Basically, I think there is no need to ask questions about the reincarnation of insects and animals as the Buddhist scriptures probably have some way of judging them. About the suicide part, it is similar to my question which Babyrain answered in the topic "Buddhism explained." The important thing is the concept of reincarnation and how believable it is. The best way is to of course use humans as an example, not animals or insects since we do not know fully how their mind operates.
^Exactly... If Jun is very interested in animals particularly, maybe he'll be able to find a Buddhism expert specializing in Animals' reincarnation, coz honestly, I am more interested in Humans. Now, you are obviously looking at it in a TECHNICAL way. I said lessons to be learnt, did i mention one is meant to learn every type of lesson of life in the technical sense? Also, nowhere in my posts I have mentioned it is OK to commit 'small mistakes'. Like I have explained CLEARLY in the laws of karma... You learnt a lesson, you add to your good karma. Then you committed a mistake in that same thing which you have supposedly learnt in your next life. Your 'mistake' would be taken into account as bad karma. You are obviously looking at it in some technical way, which is, subject A: Learnt... Passed... Then you failed subject A in your next life.. SO you are asking me whether that should be penalized. The answer is; it will go back to the laws of karma. Not whether the subject A is passed/failed. That's because it slipped my mind to mention KARMA. Do you seriously expect me to mention A-Z in the Buddhist scriptures in just a few posts?! Geez. Excuse me, if you are committing suice for the benefit of another; then it is not really COMMITTING SUICIDE in the technical sense. Because you are, in a way, FORCED to do it. Geez, I can't believe you cannot understand the difference between committing suicide voluntarily and being FORCED to commit suicide. About your mistakes and sins, I have already explained it clearly in the laws of karma itself, just that you don't comprehend it well. "but made mistakes on older ones, you don't just get penalized like that; because all of your past lives are taken into account.. " I never mentioned the karma because I have not done an elaborate explanation on karma itself. What I meant was that the mistakes you made in your current life; "you don't just get penalized like that", MEANING, the bad mistakes will be accumulated as your BAD karma. So, it would depend on the balance of your karma itself; be it good or bad. And not just get punished for the bad ones that you have just recently committed in your currently just-ended life. Capiche?
@MDD - lol yea, apparently they can play better baseball than me u see im curious to know how animals will be judge thats all...i find it fasciniting bout the suicide, if u notice what i've quoted, she stressed on the phrase "WITHOUT a choice" im not ruling out possibilities that it is true cuz i have no reason to do so. as u can see none of my questions are doubting the existance of it. hehe why only use human? others are living thing as well, furthermore we share the same source of life as they do, in a way we are equivalent with them
^I have already addressed your suicide example in #258 And why use humans? Simple. Firstly, because you and I are humans... (unless you claim you are not? -shock) Secondly, because we can't even comprehend fully how the humans think and evolve; why move on to animals?
