This is from Babyrain's first post. It answers your question I believe. "The astral body will travel to a place to undergo PURGATORY... This is not HELL in the strict sense, it is nothing like the one which is usually portrayed. It is more like a HALL OF MEMORIES in the astral world. There is a short stay in 'purgatory' where the soul, or Overself, sees the mistakes committed in the life just ended... This purgatory is not a punishment centre, it is not the local jail and there are no devils who gleefully prod you with red-hot toasting forks. Purgatory is merely a planet where you shed some of your conceit, some of your illusions, and where you face up to the fact that although on Earth you had loads of money, etc., and people were afraid of you, here it is quite different, you did not bring your money with you."
Far more amount of Faith? I beg to differ. I think it requires far more amount of logicality and reasoning to be able to comprehend my beliefs. And by the way; you used the term "your religion" which is so inaccurate here, as I have already explained Buddhism is NOT a religion. Now someone apparently doesn't read my post accurately... or properly. Lol, can't really blame you since they are so lengthy... Anyway, I've bolded the words. I already explained the process of Death; As to what happened precisely when a person dies; I believe in this -- The astral body will travel to a place to undergo PURGATORY... This is not HELL in the strict sense, it is nothing like the one which is usually portrayed. It is more like a HALL OF MEMORIES in the astral world. There is a short stay in 'purgatory' where the soul, or Overself, sees the mistakes committed in the life just ended... Now basically everything else; every memory of one's past lives will be viewed here in the Hall of Memories. So unlike what you said a person can't reflect on what he did wrong if he doesn't remember; he DOES in fact remembers... after his 'death', during the moment of purgatory. This purgatory is not a punishment centre, it is not the local jail and there are no devils who gleefully prod you with red-hot toasting forks. Purgatory is merely a planet where you shed some of your conceit, some of your illusions, and where you face up to the fact that although on Earth you had loads of money, etc., and people were afraid of you, here it is quite different, you did not bring your money with you. After the said process; then one will either be reincarnated back to Earth; or evolve to the next dimension (graduates). There are nine dimensions existing, we are upon a three-dimensional world. Unfortunately, it's quite impossible to picture a fourth or fifth dimensional world to a person living in the third dimension.
First of all, I don't understand what you mean by "God can make mistakes"? Where did I say that? Secondly, No where in my posts did I mention that the Overself = God. I believe the description of Overself that I stated is : "The Overself is a soul, the super-ego, the super-being, the overseer, the one who manages us from some distant plane of existence. Overself is the real "I". In Sanskrit; the word Overself is termed the Adhyatma, and in Sanskrit, it is the whole NUCLEUS, the whole POWER, the whole fount of our existence. A point from which all feelings, all senses, everything about us, originates and everything about us, returns." For the purpose of differentiation of the below description of the Great Entity aka The Great Overself; I would use the term Human Overself here... In the Tibetan beliefs; there is a God, there are Gods. However, upon this Earth, we are in NO position to appreciate the Form and Nature of God. We live in what may be termed a three-dimensional world which I already explained. God lives in a world so far removed that the human brain while on earth, cannot hold the necessary concept of God and thus men tend to rationalise. "God" is assumed to be something human, superhuman, if you prefer that term, but Man, in his conceit, believes that he is made in the Image of God! Man also believes that there is no life on other worlds. If Man is made in the Image of God and the peoples of other worlds are in a different image, what is to become of our concept that Man only is made in God's Image? Every world, every country of every world, has its God, or Guardian Angel. We call the God in charge of the world the "Manu". He is a highly evolved Spirit, a human who through incarnation after incarnation has purged the dross, leaving only the pure behind. There is a band of Great Beings who at times of need, come to this Earth that they may set an example whereby ordinary mortals may be enabled to lift from the mire of worldly desires. This is true, when one thinks of Gautama Buddha, Moses, Christ and many others were of that Order. The belief is that we have the Manu of the world (in this case Earth) , the Great Evolved Being who controls the destiny of the world. There are minor Manus who control the destiny of a country. In endless years, the World Manu will move on, and the next best, now well trained, will evolve, and will take over the Earth. In short, God is not just the Head of a big Corporation, or an old fellow who wears a long beard and carries a lantern on the end of a staff. God is a great Force which can be comprehended and understood when one is out of the Earth body and in the astral world. At present upon the Earth one is in a 3-D world and most people could not understand, the description of a NINE dimensional object, including myself of course. Anyway, the Manus, no matter how glorious they seem to be, are just puppets of the Great Entity or Overself which makes up "God". That Great Overself uses Manus as puppets in much the same way as the Human Overself may use a whole bunch of humans in order to gain experience.
@無得頂 : I'll try to address your questions tomorrow -bigsmile Very tired here... Lol, and I see that you made a reply on my behalf... which is what i wanted to say anyway.. Didn't notice ur reply coz I was writing mine on Wordpad. Thanks.
okay. you still didn't answer my question, BabyRain or 無得頂. stating that there is a place called Purgatory and that is where one has the ability to understand and view the mistakes he/she made in the past life isn't logically true. since in fact, we do not remember the past life and the mistakes we made in them. therefore, it is logical to assume that these places doesn't exist. unless, we haven't been there yet, and that this earthly dimension is the first of the nine dimensions of existance. however, i don't think that was what you are trying to get at, since you clearly stated we are of the three-dimension. so my question again, how do you know that these dimensions of existance exist? i assume you aren't wholly taking the Buddhist text and believe their theory whole-heartly. <_<
You didn’t state “God can make mistakes”. I made that statement from reading your text with the analogy of Joan of Arc. It could be from your choice of words. However, when I read that “the strings of the puppets became entangled” it bought up the questions of "was it done on purpose or by accident?" I assume it was done by accident and if it was done by accident -- the Overself has the possibility of making mistakes. do you see the legitimacy of my statement? And if it was not an accident and the Overself knowingly tangle the strings -- Joan of Arc’s role of hearing the voice of God would logically propose that there wouldn’t be the need for the entanglement of the strings to cause that event. do you see my point? I am curious, what is the origin of the written documents of the Tibetan Buddhist? Did they believe these ideals of different dimensions from the beginning of the Tibetan Buddhism creation or did it evolve through time and cultural influences? The root of my question is because after reading your post. I went on to listen and watch Maverick’s thread of Physic and God. And the ideas of string theory, super string theory, and hyperspace composition are awfully similar to your ideologies and beliefs.
The purgatory stage is for one to see one's mistakes. Then judging from those mistakes, one will be reincarnated to one's designated location based on the judgment. Regarding your last paragraph, have you heard of the phrase "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence?" No one can prove at the moment whether the Tibetan teachings of Buddhism are true or not.
What don't you understand abt that part? Why is it not logical? Purgatory is not the Purgatory in the Christian sense. Is it so hard to comprehend that when you die, you are given the memories back of all ur past lives for that 'moment of truth' in the Hall of Memories? And when you are reborn; all your past lives' memories are 'kept away' somewhere; to be viewed upon when you die again? Excuse me, I just said we DO remember our past lives and the mistakes we made... I seriously don't understand your statement there either.. Care to explain? I'll give you an example of what I construed from your theory of logicality: "We do not remember God, it is told by us from the Bible. So it is logical to assume that God doesn't exist. Jesus doesn't exist." Now do you realize how flawed ur own statement is? I believed I have stressed that my beliefs are from the TIBETAN BUDDHISM teachings and NOT something I construed out of nowhere. I do believe in them whole-heartedly otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to explain something I don't believe in right?? Stop assuming OK? The Tibetan Buddhism teachings are a branch of the Buddhism teachings, just like the Christianity have their branches of Catholism and Protestants and what not.
Word. Just like NO one can prove the Bible and the Christianity beliefs are true or not. So, don't even go there, Apollon.
At least I earned that VIP status rite? Oh yeah I quoted you in the "If Jesus died for our sins" thread...
I believe I already addressed the difference between the Human Overself and the Great Overself (aka God to some of us)... so. The Tibetan Buddhism teachings existed way before Christianity came into being. Most of the beliefs are recorded down throughout the years; just like how the Bible itself came about. Although the similarity ends here. The Bible, one claims, is from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Whereas the Tibetan Buddhism teachings are recorded through the High Priests/Dalai Lamas and the Highest Lamas' accounts of their journeys in the Astral worlds; where they came to learn about the planes of existence and able to comprehend the concept of Human Overselves and such; their spiritual learnings throughout the years. That is just ONE of the example. As for what exactly are the origins of the teachings; it is very lengthy to be described here... And i need to do some reading up as well if you intend to know further.
frustated, BabyRain? come'on ... we are only discussing about tibetan buddhism. don't take it so personally. lol. it was illogiical for me. 無得頂 clear it up a bit. i know that the sense of purgatory that you use isn't the same of the purgatory of catholtism. i'm not stupid. <_< at least, i don't think i am. lol. i don't remember my past life. does it mean i don't have one? if i understand this correctly, our past life existed in a 2-dimension plane. therefore, what was it like? come'on ... BabyRain. i can speak for 90% of the world when i say, "i don't remember being in a past life". there are cases of deja'vu, however those do not count. since you are so sure that you DO remember your past life ... 無得頂, truthfully do you remember yours? but the thing is ... Jesus does exist. that is fact, not only record by the Bible but by other Hebrew and Roman texts. therefore by using your statement ... since Jesus exist = God exist = therefore the Bible is true. there is logical flaw in the tibetan buddhism and i'm just pointing it out. if the existance of life predominate the life you have now and we are to better ourselves in each life. there must be a source of "memory" to accurately give guidance; therefore preventing the possibility of making the same mistakes over again. however, that does not exist -- since most individuals, like myself, do not remember the existance of life predominating the one i'm having now. therefore, how do i know i'm better myself ... if i can't remember the mistakes i made in the past? do you see my point?
LOL... Oh OK.. I Finally get why YOU don't understand... because you misconstrued what I am saying; yet again... When I said one does remember one's past lives, I am not saying we REMEMBER them here; right now.. in this time.. We REMEMBER them after our deaths; in the process of going to the purgatory; we are given back the recollection of every single little detail of what we did in our past and the current lives. Capiche? And no, I am not frustrated... In fact I am rather delighted and amused to be engaging in this discussion. Although I do need my beauty sleep.
Babyrain said our past life does not mean we were in the 2D world. I asked a similar question on the 1st page already. We don't move up and down the 9 worlds every reincarnation. I think Babyrain meant our memories and actions of our past lives are not forgotten. They are still in that purgatory stage where one goes through before reincarnating into one's next life. About apollon's last paragraph, one just needs to following the teachings of Buddhism (in this situation) to be a "good" person.
you are avoiding the question by stating technicalities. but i will answer your answer -- satan was not a product of God, per se. he was an angel that believe that he could be better than God. therefore, he was thrown down from Heaven. i don't understand your question about adam and eve and their offsprings. explain, please. BabyRain ... i'm here to learn about tibetan buddhism. no reason to single my religion out. do you want a cookie? lol. j/k. i responded to your post ... especially on the one with fearless_fx quotation. i must warn you .. its lengthy.
And if I may add; of course we are not given the memories of our past lives when we are reborn; or it would be a rather comical/depressing situation wouldn't it? to the poor confused soul? One is given a clean slate of memory; yes.. and they are given their place of births/circumstances you chose to be born into, etc. And of course after you are bornt, you are not to remember what mistakes you made; because it is Trial and Error. And as to what one should not do or should be doing; it is to adhere to the teachings of the Buddhism.. The Eightfold Path, which means- correct views correct aspirations correct speech correct conduct correct methods of livelihood correct effort correct thoughts correct contemplation
