Vaccination?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by KilaKilaGirl, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. b-lee

    b-lee ǝʌıʇɔǝdsɹǝd ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ɐ

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    Got both shots, thankfully I'm feeling alright. Hope your friend gets better ab289
     
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  2. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks b-lee. I hope so too.
    I am curious though if anyone have friends / family members that suffers from negative effects with Sinovac that they would like to share?
     
  3. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    No offense, but...

    Quote sources, please. Otherwise, IMHO all you're saying is just fearmongering hearsay. At last count, 4.9 Billion people have been vaccinated and you talk about '...there was a news article yada yada about 2 guys?' That's a real joke. As far as I'm concerned, almost 5 billion had the shot and the best you can come up with is unsourced story about 2 guys? Bottom line is, the vaccine is safe effective and the number who had reactions are so exceedingly rare that they may be considered statistically moot.

    Or, look at it this way, the majority of people dying from covid today, like 90% of them, are the unvaccinated. With the vaccine, even you catch covid, the chances of it killing you is almost none. And this is from a disease that had already killed 4.4 million world wide. Therefore, your argument failed to convince me that the vaccine is something to need to worry about.

    Get the vaccine. It is not only safe but very effective. Period. Waiting with bated breath for my booster. This will probably become a semiannual thing.

    Now for a point of total conjecture: Some people have reported feeling a transient episode of unwellness after getting the vaccine that dissipated after a day's rest. My supposition is that these would have been the people who the virus would have struck a terrible blow had they not been vaccinated. That is, they responded to the vaccine with a heavy presentation of symptoms. Thus, IMHO, had that been the real covid, they likely wouldn't have fared well. So anyone who take the vaccine and has a bad but short reaction to it? The vaccine likely saved you from worse.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187
     
    #23 ralphrepo, Aug 22, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  4. crasianlee

    crasianlee Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for you two for sharing your personal experiences....
    Just have to continue to be safe and smart. IMO I don't think the mask mandates and restrictions should have loosen up, cause let's be frank humans are going to be humans, and everyone has their opinions and entitlements. At the end of the day, this is where you'll need to be selfish and to protect yourself and loved ones. For those that don't want to wear a mask, developed good/better hygiene methods and or be smart/cautious, whelp that's the reason your 6 feet deep or in ashes....
     
  5. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Personally? I think we've had enough of this. In terms of national health, there should be mandates; both for masks as well as vaccines. Personal freedoms don't mean squat if it endangers others.
     
  6. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    We've been here before. Imagine if small pox is still in the world
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
     
  7. Brumby

    Brumby Well-Known Member

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    Problem is we are all in this together. The actions of others do impact on us individually in society.
    For example, the clinical research data is beyond dispute in terms of facts on the ground i.e. vaccination does reduce severity and consequently on the need for hospitalization. Every bed taken due to Covid-19 takes up a bed for other public health cases. Public health resources are finite. ICU duration for Covid-19 patients are generally 3 weeks. It has significant cascading effect on emergency and elective surgeries. Vaccination helps to reduce the need for hospitalization.

    The other major problem is unvaccinated individuals are prime host for virus mutations. A more vaccinated population reduces the probability for mutation due simply to probability and random theory.

    Whilst there are many reasons for hesitancy, life choices have consequences and with Covid, consequences are most often tragic.
    Covid-19 is a serious health issue and warrant serious consideration based on medical science, facts; logic and not conspiracies.

    The issue of blood clot is well documented and so is the risk factor put in context relative to Covid-19.

    I don't fully understand the science but logic tells me the argument that vaccine will cause more mutation than non vaccinated host is spurious in reasoning. Mutation arise when the host body provides permissible conditions. Vaccination is meant to prevent the virus from surviving in the host body. Which condition do you think is more conducive for mutation?:

    With Covid and vaccination there are unchartered territory ahead. We know data coming out of Israel supports a third jab. Future action should be guided by what works based on future clinical data. Just because some answers are not currently readily available does not mean booster jabs are unnecessary.
     
  8. Brumby

    Brumby Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately IMO, you are conflating the argument between the science behind mask wearing and very often the abhorrent behavior of humans especially the elites. Very early in school one of the books we were encouraged to read is "Animal Farm". A line that has stuck with me since is that "all are created equal but some are created more equal than others". It is obvious that elites do not generally practice what they preach. There are numerous examples that you have given. Their selfish behavior does not invalidate the argument for or against mask.

    It is an interesting argument to make about an "unknown" long term effect of Covid-19 vaccines often made by anti vaxxers. I am not a medical practitioner and so I give more weight to those who know the subject better than me. It is my general understanding which I have yet to see rebutted is that issues with vaccines tend to surface within 6 months of administration. Long term effects are rare. I guess the reasoning here is that over a much longer period of time it is more difficult to attribute to single cause when there could be multiple reasons arising over passage of time.

    I would disagree with the narrative that anyone who agrees to be vaccinated is a "test" subject. The approved vaccines have gone through regulatory protocols in terms of testing regime. It is widely administered around the world. Labelling current recipients as test subjects is misleading because it is not supported by facts but an opinionated position.
     
    #28 Brumby, Aug 26, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
  9. KilaKilaGirl

    KilaKilaGirl Well-Known Member

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    So much debates on this thread that wasn't part of my initial plan when I first created this post. It was meant to inform and to spread awareness of those people who had the awkward weird side effects when they took the vaccine and would willing to share like I had. It was for public purposes to educate those who haven't yet vaccinated. We are not here to persuade anyone to take or not to take the dose of covid vaccines nor should we. In political and medical matters, we shouldnt get involve in anyway possible to complicate the already intricate debates.
     
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  10. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    KilaKilaGirl I agree - I apologize if I had inadvertently hijacked the thread.
    I'll remove my posts.

    Admin: Feel free to remove my posts from other user's quote. Thanks!
     
  11. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Vaccine's side effects? Yes, it happens. But what is undeniable is that without the vaccine, those same side effects happens with a Covid infection at a rate many times higher. So if one has to gamble, gambling with the vaccine will give a better result than gambling with Covid. So statistically, the vaccine is a better option.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58347434
     
  12. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    If true, another side effects to be on the lookout for

    Source:
     
  13. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    It's being pretty much debunked by medical professionals and scientists as soon as they heard of it. These "My 'friend' of a friend, who has a second cousin, who once overheard a guy in a restaurant telling another guy who's mother had..." See where I'm going with this? Stories like these are about as reliable as banking your rent on the lottery. I'm getting my booster next week ;)

    SOURCES:
    https://pagesix.com/2021/09/15/fauci-slams-nicki-minaj-for-false-covid-19-vaccine-tweet/
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nicki-minaj-trinidad-tobago-vaccine-b1921146.html
     
    #33 ralphrepo, Sep 16, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  14. crasianlee

    crasianlee Well-Known Member

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    Especially since it's Niki Minaj, yeesh...

    Ooh booster already, I think you're the first person that I know that is getting it...is it because you have the health issues that would require it? For me, I'll probably a bit more before getting it....
     
  15. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    The Niki Minaj's cousin's friend may not be true - he is getting married afterall; perhaps, got the testicles infections from a hooker / stripper from the bachelor's party.

    These, however, some IDs of reports on CDC's Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) for anyone to read, if swollen testicles side effects interests you.
    0906923
    0907317
    0989438
    0989745
    1055397
    ... (and dozens other reports)

    Then again, perhaps you shouldn't trust your lying eyes and accept whatever the "fact-checkers" publishes instead.


    I actually find the last sentence of Niki Minaj's tweet "So just pray on it & make sure you’re comfortable with ur decision, not bullied" to be more interesting. Just as it's evident here on this thread.
     
  16. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, no vaccine is 100% safe. In fact, no drug on the market today is 100% safe. That is, there is that small subset of the population that will have some horrible reaction. Anyone who doubts this can look up the history of drug research and read about the ghastly stories of some terrible outcome from a simple medication like tylenol or aspirin. But, in the course of human use of pharmacology, one death per several hundred thousand uses is considered an acceptable risk.

    Translate today's vaccine reluctance instead to taking medications; it would literally mean that one would NEVER take another medication ever again because there is no way that the medication is ever guaranteed to be 100% safe.

    Given that over five billion world wide have already been protected by the Covid vaccine and the stunning epidemiology evidence statistics supporting it, it is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific and medical community that despite the few (numbering in tens, hundreds, or even thousands) that had poor or tragic reactions, the vast majority of our human population will decidedly benefit from continued vaccinations. That, in a nutshell is considered acceptable medical risk. Or, put it this way, what would you say if the FDA said, that because any drug is not proven to be 100% safe, that all pharmaceuticals will henceforth be withdrawn from public use? In that case, millions will die so that the few medication horror stories would be prevented. In such a warped 'absolute safety first' calculus, the folly of some who cling to 'but it's not 100% safe...' is glaringly evident.

    Yeah, I'm a old man with all sorts of medical failings as well as front line exposure so for me, it's not really much of an option, LOL... If I grow two heads, you guys will be the first to know... ;)

    ADDENDUM: Got both my flu (High Dose version) and Covid (booster) vaccines done 09.20.21. The two shots were about 15 mins apart. No reaction except for a little mild pain at the injection site for the Pfizer booster about a day later. At the 3 day mark, continues to be completely free of any reactions. So far so good. For those worried about getting their flu and covid shots together, the previous CDC recommendation had been to wait 2 weeks between shots; that has since been amended. It is now recommended that both can be given at the same time (read first paragraph, 4th bullet point at: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2021-2022.htm#coadmin).
     
    #36 ralphrepo, Sep 19, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  17. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    For anyone that is interested - unrelated to side effects though:
    This is an educational resource by The College of Physicians of Philadelphia on Vaccine Development, Testing and Regulations

    Pretty interesting and eye opening knowledge (to me anyway) on the stages of vaccine development / testing, duration of testing at each stage and provides some history on the laws, etc.
     
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  18. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    Just saw this news - titled "Moderna says Covid vaccine has fewer breakthrough cases than Pfizer’s, but higher myocarditis rates in young men"

    Source:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/11/mod...as-fewer-breakthrough-cases-than-pfizers.html

    Edit:
    Also, I also found the following weekly data from UK PHE (Public Health England), a UK Health Security Agency.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports

    Disclaimer - unrelated to side effects. Data mainly shows number of cases and deaths for unvaccinated, vaccinated with 1 dose <20 days, vaccinated with 1 dose >=21 days and fully vaccinated (2nd does >= 14 days after 2nd dose).
     
    #38 ab289, Nov 12, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
  19. ralphrepo

    ralphrepo Well-Known Member

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    Anti Vax disinformation claims another; don't say we didn't warn you...

    Anti-vaccine Christian broadcaster Marcus Lamb dies at 64 after contracting Covid

    Nov. 30, 2021, 5:44 PM EST / Updated Dec. 1, 2021, 12:57 PM EST
    By Tim Fitzsimons

    Marcus Lamb, a co-founder and the CEO of the conservative Christian Daystar Television Network who vocally opposed Covid-19 vaccines, has died at 64, weeks after he contracted Covid-19, the network said. “It's with a heavy heart we announce that Marcus Lamb, president and founder of Daystar Television Network, went home to be with the Lord this morning," the network said a tweet Tuesday. "The family asks that their privacy be respected as they grieve this difficult loss. Please continue to lift them up in prayer."

    Lamb's son, Jonathan Lamb, filled in for his father on a Nov. 23 Daystar broadcast and beseeched listeners to pray for his father's recovery from Covid-19. Speaking to viewers from Lamb's hospital bedside via telephone, Lamb's wife, Joni Lamb, said, "With this thing, it's kind of like riding a roller coaster. "It's like, you'll just be up and everything's great, and then you have a little lull, and then you come down low and then you come back up, but from everybody that I talk to — I think that's the pattern," she said. "We can really feel the prayers of the people," she said, thanking viewers for their prayers. "Pray specifically for his lungs to clear the Covid pneumonia and pray for his oxygen level to continue to be strong and to go up so that we can wean him off of oxygen and bring him home," she said. Jonathan Lamb described his father's Covid infection as "a spiritual attack from the enemy" to "take down" Marcus Lamb.

    The network has dedicated hours of broadcasts to anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination activists and groups.

    SOURCE: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...istian-broadcaster-dies-covid-battle-rcna7139 [/spoiler=From NBC News]

    But wait... There's more; apparently, someone on Reddit started posting a Herman Cain Award thread, an obvious parody of the infamous 'Darwin Award' given to people who accidentally killed themselves while doing idiotic shit. This new, ahem... 'award' recalls former presidential candidate and Trump supporter, Herman Cain, who famously took a very public anti-vax stance but was ultimately felled by Covid; which ironically he probably contracted at one of Trump's gatherings. The thread documents both noted and not so notable personalities who, like Cain, were also fervently anti-vax and were also subsequently killed by the virus.

    SOURCE: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/16/red...s-stories-of-anti-vaxxers-dying-of-covid.html
     
    #39 ralphrepo, Dec 1, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  20. ab289

    ab289 Well-Known Member

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    #40 ab289, Dec 2, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
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